No hurt feelings. Apparently no need to worry that having fun with the topic would hurt your feelings.

But the situation is that the rest of the culture is now calling 90's cars "old school". Actually, those articles are a couple years old now, so the rest of the world has been calling 90's cars "old school" for several years.

Agreement or disagreement with that really comes down to denial.

Nostalgic was supposed to be an ambiguous term to include more than is excludes and not have a year cutoff.
Maybe a good definition would be:
If you find yourself regularly using a tap and die to clean up the threads on nuts, bolts, and bolt holes, while doing just simple maintenance and repair on your car, it's nostalgic, because it's old enough that things are showing age, and because you are taking enough care to put things back together carefully, so in your mind, there is something important about the car.

FWIW, Modified is based in Canada...

From what I've seen on this forum alone, Canada has a very different definition of what is "old"...

Yeah, but I want to enjoy it without a trailer.

Building a Mirage would require a flat brimmed hat and about a thousand cans of Monster energy drink.

LOL.

Move to Canada then.

That's completely fictitious. Just because a couple of magazines say it is so, doesn't make it so.



Reaching out, huh? I'll be honest, man. The only people (and I mean this) that do what they can to provide an "argument" to include their cars in the OS category are the people that were told their cars were not OS. Not trying to instigate, but my past experiences have dictated this to me.

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There's only a couple of magazines left. Most of them closed up and shut down. The import car culture is not on the expansion.
And I've already pointed out that the magazines are notoriously poor at providing accurate technical information. The only thing they do well is reflect culture, specifically what the masses are spending money on. Whatever is selling the hottest gets featured, because content is dictated by advertising, and companies only advertise what they know they can sell. The result is the magazines providing a mirror of what the readership is consuming.
Right now, that is the 90's is old school.

Those quotes were dug out because someone said "I can't imagine anyone calling 90's cars old school". Well, several someones at two different media companies did. The point was made.
Disagree? Well, start quoting articles from a printed source that say 90's is not old school.

Side note: Modified's address is in Florida. I seem to remember Super Street being in California.

And Old School is not something that people want to be. It is a put down indicating that the thing being described is not the current latest and greatest. Maybe a back handed compliment, meaning "I heard the name of the old thing, and immediately thought 'What a piece-of-crap', and after seeing it, realize it's not half bad for a piece-of-crap, but not as good as the current state-of-the-art.

The real issue here is that the world moved on and there is a new crop of cars that are now between new and antique. The chrome-bumper-and-carburetor-only crowd don't want to loose the exclusivity of their group, and grasp at any reason to exclude the new group.
Time won't stop.

The only real solutions are:
Everyone become a little less exclusionary and say "whatever" instead of trying so hard to make up reasons to keep others out.
Or,
Create subsets to the group so the people with a hard-on for excluding others can say "Yeah, it's also a nostalgic, but it's not part of my group, it's part of that group over there".

^^^ See what I mean? \/ \/ \/



There's really no reason to continue as it will lead nowhere. You can have your "new-old school" misnomer or whatever you want to call it. But beating a dead horse is just that.....

But I do find it funny that you're now insulting people in the OS community that you so want to be included in. I don't know, man.

But enjoy yourself and your new found community, dude.

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It's a discussion about the definition of "nostalgic". If you want to equate nostalgic with "old school", fine. There seems to be a desire to equate nostalgic, old school, classic, and antique. Classic and antique have rigid definitions put forth by another car related organization, the Classic Car Club of America. Antique is 45+ years old. Classic is 25+ years old. They put additional requirements above and beyond age:

http://www.classiccarclub.org

The subject is long overdue for serious discussion, which you do not want to have. Digging your heals in and proclaiming that you are not willing to budge is not constructive or productive.

It makes absolutely no sense to make nostalgic 25+ years, when classic is already 25+ years. Doing so would render the word nostalgic irrelevant, and the website would be more aptly named Japanese Classic Car Dot Com.

In addition, adopting hard line date definitions, while ignoring the additional requirements for classic status, is hypocritical. By very definition, most Japanese cars would not qualify as either limited production, or expensive when new. Not to mention the requirement for And what about representing the pinnacle of engineering, styling and
design for their era. If you are going to smorgass board the definition, then why smorgass board only those requirements that include inexpensive mass production 25+ year old cars, and exclude expensive limited production cars that are 25- years old?

Now, is there a discussion, or a lot more heal digging?

Gee wiz Wally, what's all the fuss about?

Everybody has their own definition of what is or isn't old school.

Just because Modified, Jassics, or SuperStreet say one thing, doesn't make it so. That's their opinions and they are free to choose and say so. AND, like you say, times change, people change, ideas and ideology change. Nothing is set in stone.

JNC has it's own set of standards, and it's not up to me to say if that is right or wrong. If a cut-off year is chosen on purpose or if it is arbitrarily chosen, that is up to the powers at JNC. If JNC decides old school means anything up to and including 1985 - I live with it. I'm a guest here and I accept those terms. Maybe they'll change one day to include 90's rides, but that is up to them and should not be influenced solely by 'members' suggestions or complaints. If that were the case, everything would be constantly changing, and the site and magazine would be in a 'constant state of flux.' So, that's not to say they shouldn't listen to us, but WE shouldn't complain or fuss if our opinions or suggestions or wishes and desires are not implemented. Chill, relax, and enjoy JNC for what it is.


them's my 2 cents

_________________
Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com

BTW - more definitions according to the CCCA, taken directly from their site:



And they have nothing for "Nostalgic"

Oh, I don't agree or disagree with them. It's their club and their definitions.

But all this still doesn't answer this thread starters inquiry of when will early Evo's be allowed...?

_________________
Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com

Well, that was answered waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the third post of this thread....



The rest of this has just been one big JO session...






Yeah, but their office is in Toronto.

I simply voiced my opinion.

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Looking... looking.... found it!


OH yeah! There it was... but it was the 5th post of the thread, that's why I missed it!




And you are entitled to it!

I did not single you or any other poster out. I was just voicing my opinion too, in my own obnoxious anal-retentive way.

_________________
Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com

TG, I wasn't trying to sound rude in my response, sir. It just seems that the unnecessary banter was born from my initial post.

And I apologize for my part in its continuation.

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That's cool man. We're all entitled to our opinions and that's what this forum is all about. Sometimes we just get a little passionate with our responses (including myself at times). There was no harm done and no need for you to apologize.

_________________
Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com

Antique Automobile Club of America




The English language does not have an organization to set definitions or enforce its usage, like French does. Because of this, when an organizations like the AACA and CCCA sets down a definition and makes use of that definition, it gets adopted by the rest of the world.

It's conspicuous that the AACA and CCCA do not have a definition of Nostalgic, and that JNC uses the word Nostalgic and not Classic. And that is because JNC is dealing with cars that do not meet the definition of Classic. Cars which do not qualify as classic due to country of origin, acceptance by fans of American and European cars, AND age. JNC conspicuously and intentionally did not use the word Classic, because the definition of Classic does not match the cars being described.

The problem is that there is no stated definition of Nostalgic. If it is not synonymous with Classic, then it is NOT 25+ years, and would be 25- years, down to some date which has not been stated.

So what is the window?
20-25 years? Sort of a small group. Probably not a good politicial move either.
15-25 years? Still rather narrow considering Classic spans a twenty year window.
10-25 years? Probably a good match of length of time considering Classic is twenty years and Antique is open ended.

When does a 1993 car attain Nostalgic status? Throwing out the most ridiculously restrictive and exclusionary requirement, and the overly generous definition of the other end of the spectrum, the most reasonable and realistic answer is:
2008.

I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill in regards to JNC's use of the term Nostalgic. Or, maybe I'm missing something.

Perhaps there should be a governing body that determines automotive nomenclature, but to my limited scope of knowledge, there isn’t. Just because one organization says one thing, doesn’t make it right. Club “A” has one definition and Club “B” has another.... so who’s right?

In one entry you state:



While in fact the CCCA says...




Which would make a classic at least 62 years old.
And they disagree what the Brits define.

Also according to the CCCA, an ANTIQUE car would be 25 years old


What bothers me even more about the CCCA is this little part...



"Only specific important marques"..., so what about everything else? Sounds a bit exclusive to me.

Now, as for this...



Mind you, I have not visited their site to confirm anything, but according to your post, their definition is just the opposite that of the CCCA.

Now I can not speak for the founders of JNC, but if you ask me, when they coined their name, I have a feeling they were thinking more in these lines, as taken from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:



This falls more in line with that popular magazine from Japan that a lot of us like to look at, Nostalgic Hero. I think their use of the term Nostalgic is based on a similar definition.

And if JNC want's to go with 1985 as a date to determine which cars are in & which cars are out, that's fine by me. It's their magazine and they may set their own standard as to what is included. Maybe at some point, they will include a section for 'new' nostalgics. Either way, whatever they do, whatever they call it, I'm happy that they DO cover old Japanese cars, regardless of what anyone wants to call them.

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Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com

If it's a reference to Nostalgic Hero magazine, then your understanding and the correlation is incorrect.
http://geibunsha.co.jp/mag/nh/en/


This definition would EXCLUDE:
AE86
MR2
Supra
Sentra
Stanza
Maxima
200SX
300ZX
Most RX7
323
MX6
Miata
Starion
Tredia
Cordia
Mirage
etc., etc., etc.

Geibunsha Publishing Co. has a second magazine to cover 1980s, Hachi Maru.

The 25+ thing came up only very recently, in a single post, and it does not match the previously stated policy (nostalgic is a vague term without a date requirement). Also, it doesn't match the Japanese magazine namesake.

So the original post is a question that can not be answered.
We don't have a definition of the word.
gdseeker doesn't have the answer.
toyotageek doesn't have the answer.
datsunfreak doesn't have the answer.
I don't have the answer.
Ben's comment doesn't match the previous statements.
And no one has said if this is a group decision, dictator's edict, or what.

No, actually your understanding of what I'm saying is incorrect. My reference is to the title of the magazine, not the magazine content.

And referencing the English page is somewhat mute, since it is a automated software translation, that really doesn't tell us about the origins or meaning of the magazine's title.



Ah, now I see it, JNC should publish a magazine called NJNC - Not Japanese Nostalgic Car, for the cars that aren't nostalgic.



No one has the answers. Everyone's previous statements do not match. Thus I've come to the conclusion that if there is no answer, there is then no point in discussing the matter and everything we say or do is pointless. The point of everything we have discussed is totally useless. And if everything is pointless and useless, then there is no such thing as a classic, antique or nostalgic car. There are only cars.

And there really is no point in me continuing this pointless discussion.

Now that you've made me completely dizzy with all this head spinning, I think I'll go sit down and watch some Japanese Nostalgic/Vintage/Classic/Old TV shows on DVD.

_________________
Michael - Collector of Toyotamobilia ~ www.toyotageek.com
Tomica Fan Club ~ www.tomicafanclub.com