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 Post subject: Might be getting a celica-supra, have ignition Qs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
Long story short- I found an '85 supra L-type auto :roll: that the owner's willing to let go for $350. The only problem, aside from some rust, is it has no spark. The owner said he's owned the car for 17 years and drove it daily until it broke down.

He replaced some of the easy (cheap) stuff, like plug wires and coil pack, but still no spark. I've read that it could be the igniter ($$$), but I'm hopeing its something cheaper. :lol:

I'll probably go over and do some troubleshooting and testing in a few days so let me know if there's anything else I should test. I'll be testing the igniter and checking all the no-brainer stuff like grounds, connectors, ect.

Is the igniter (aka ignition module) prone to failure? I'm wondering if it would be worth to buy a used one from the junkyard to save some dough?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:40 pm 
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I would think that as long as the igniter checks out within spec it will be good to go with one from a junkyard. Check the online TSRM for specs

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/T ... x?S=IG&P=1

That is the link for the ignition section of the TSRM and should have all the stuff you are looking for. I don't think that the igniters are prone to failure, but they do go out. If you have some yards that have either some celica supras or cressidas, you should be able to find some igniters pretty easy.

One last thing, don't forget to check the fuses, both inside the car and in the engine compartment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:33 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
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Location: FL's east coast
I'm pretty sure it's the igniter now. We have power going IN to the igniter, but no power coming out when the engine is cranked.

So I should be able to get an igniter off of anything with a 5mge right? Lets see that would be 83-88 cressi and 82-86 supra. I only know of one Mk2 supra in the area and no cressidas.... these things are getting rare around here.

Does the 7mge share any ignition parts with it's older brother the 5mge? Its seems like a Mk3 supra of mx83 would be easier to find around here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:43 pm 
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is the distributor turned but the camshaft?
is it turning?
maybe it has a broken timing belt.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Location: Austin
im having the same issue with mine... i tried to use an older nova ICM but it just effed somthing up now im getting no spark so now im trying to figure that one out...

good luck on figuring it out brewski


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:28 am 
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I would think that if the plugs going to the igniter are the same that you could probably use a 7M igniter on a 5M engine. I can possibly try later today and let you know.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:15 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
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Location: FL's east coast
Alright I was looking at some on ebay and it looks like the changed the igniter design in '84. Old version igniters look like a box where new version igniters like mine have 4 molded in studs for screwing the coil on. One ebay listing shows igniter compatability for '84-'92 supra and '85-'92 cressida, so if those #s are right, then 7m igniters should work. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Sounds right. The other way to check is copy the part numbers on the top of the igniter down and see if they match when you get to the junkyard. I did not get a chance to get over to the shop and try the swap on the igniters myself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
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Location: FL's east coast
Yeah I've been meaning to grab the igniter and take it with me but I keep forgetting whenever I go look at the car. :roll:

You don't by chance have an '85 igniter you could grab the #s off of do you? :lol:

Anyway, tomorrow I'll probably calling up every junkyard in a 50 mile radius and then hopefully if I find my part I can get the car running and drive it home Tuesday. I'm really starting to love this car, even if it is an l-type and auto! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:23 pm 
Hey, I have a spare Igniter (coil+brick). But you will need to splice your old plug/socket (solder and heat shrink). The story was, I was having problem not getting spark. I was so sure it was the igniter, so I bought another one from someone. And I was still having problem (I should have checked voltage like you did). It was my relay as it turned out. Let me know if you are interested. I paid $35 shipped for the igniter. Will sell it to you the same price also. If you want pics, i can take a pic in the morning.

Here is my 85 :P. And if you go to celicasupra.com, my username is denvermk2.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:54 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:07 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area
Concur on all counts, replace both coil and ignitor, check the fuses too!!


L-types are really getting popular the last few years!!


Be sure to check out CelicaSupra.com as well!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:25 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
Thanks for all the help guys! :tu:

I don't have the car at my house yet, or I would be double and triple checking everything. I checked the main power fuse (75a), and the fuse box was open so I'm pretty sure the PO had checked most of the others. Everything works except for no spark. It seems like if a fuse was blown there would be no power to the + side of the igniter.

The coil's already brand new, it was one of the first things the PO tried replacing when he figured out there was no spark.

SupraMk2: I'm gonna look for an igniter locally because I want to get this thing on the road ASAP, :lol: But I'll shoot you a PM if I have trouble finding one or the want too much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:06 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
I went and picked up the old/bad igniter today.

Its toyota #: 89620-14361

More googling indicates it may only be a 2.5 year part, 84-86.5.
This make the most sense out of all the claims I've seen on ebay ads, ect, because the igniter was changed to the new design in '84, and the Mk3/ 7mge debuted in '86.5.

I called around my local yards and only found one igniter. Its on an '87 cressida motor 5mge. I have to call the guy up tomorrow and get the part #, but I have a feeling it's not the same. He said I could have it for $35, but with no guarantee that it works. I'm kinda skeptical about buying 22 year old electronics without some kind of way of making sure it works.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:26 pm 
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That link in my first post should have the specs on the igniter. Bring a multimeter with you and see if it checks out within spec. If they won't let you check it, go somewhere else.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:33 pm 
Yeah... thats the right serial #. Thats what i have.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:10 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
I have the old igniter sitting in front of me right now. I've already done the in car testing/ troubleshooting and it showed no power going from the igniter to the coil.

Is there anyway to bench test this part? The manual only shows in car testing. I just want to do one final test before I get a new one.

I took the igniter apart and visually it doesn't look bad. No corrosion on the solder points or cracks in the resin, but I that doesn't really mean anything on an electronic part. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Top of this page,

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/T ... x?S=IG&P=7

gives the primary coil resistance as 0.4-0.5 ohms. The secondary coil resistance is stated as 8.5-11.5 ohms. The first two instructions on this page are to disconnect the high tension lead and to disconnect the ignition coil connectors. Hence, I would believe that you could use these specs with the coil out of the car. I believe that the only connection left after following the instructions would be the two bolts holding it to the fender.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:15 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
Well I finally figured it out... I should have listened to zukiru.

We tried everything, checked every connection, read through the manual more than a few times. Still couldn't get spark.

I thought it was the signal generator from the dizzy because we had power to everything but no signal. Finally, it dawned on me, I asked my dad to watch the dizzy rotor as I bumped over the car.... nothing, not even a budge.

SH!T

So I pop off the timing belt cover. The belt is still intact but pretty nasty. So I ask my dad to watch that as I bump it again... nothing, he says the belt shimmies a little. So I'm thinking, bad timing sprocket or something ... I dunno.

So we call the guy over to show him whats up. After explaining why he lost spark I tell him straight up, "This is a much more serious problem then I thought, It's gonna cost me a lot more to repair than I was hoping for." My dad asked him, "How much is it worth to you now, knowing this is the problem?" so the guy says "I still think $350 is a fair price, anyways I could trade it in and get $1000 from CASH FOR CLUNKERS"

:evil: Seriously! Cash for Clunkers screwed me out of a cheap supra!

I mean, the car probably is worth $350. I could probably part it and make a little money, but as a daily driver I would need to get it for around $250 to make it worthwhile. For the cost of parts, towing and possibly labor if I get stumped, I could find a better daily.

The thing is, acorrding to http://www.cars.gov/ the official information site of the now renamed "Cash for clunkers" bill, his car doesn't even qualify!

Taken directly from the site
Quote:
How do I know if my car or truck is an eligible trade-in vehicle?

There are several requirements (but you also have to meet certain conditions for the car or truck you wish to buy). Your dealer can help you determine whether you have an eligible trade in vehicle.

Your trade-in vehicle must

* have been manufactured less than 25 years before the date you trade it in
* have a "new" combined city/highway fuel economy of 18 miles per gallon or less
* be in drivable condition
* be continuously insured and registered to the same owner for the full year preceding the trade-in
* The trade-in vehicle must have been manufactured not earlier than 25 years before the date of trade in and, in the case of a category 3 vehicle, must also have been manufactured not later than model year 2001

Note that work trucks (i.e., very large pickup trucks and cargo vans) have different requirements.



So the supra definatly will not quailfy, but what I'm afraid of is the dealers. Cars sales have been mega slow everywhere and many of the local dealers are running with this "Cash for Clunkers" ploy. I'm afraid the dealers might start taking cars that aren't even eligible, scrapping them, and taking the hit in order to sell new cars.

I'm hoping the owner will call me back when he figures out his master plan will not work. If I was in his position, I would be happier selling the car to someone who could fix it and use it for years to come. It's not like this guy needs the money, he's a NASA engineer and drives a nice, older but nice, Lexus LS.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Damn, C4C strikes again.

Try waving some cash (and bring a printout of the C4C rules as backup) under his nose and see if he bites.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:12 pm
Posts: 124
Location: FL's east coast
I think I'll let him sit on it for a little longer. I told him I would be paying cash anyway so that's not an incentive. Right now it's just not worth the money or time for me. I need something to drive and my parents won't let me keep a daily and a project. If I could get the car for about $100 cheaper that would cover most of the cost of the timing belt kit and sprocket. Plus I've never dealt with a problem like this so I'm just guessing (again) and I don't want to get in over my head.


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