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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:44 am 
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Location: Pac NW
The short radius's are done... and as can be assumed... so is the port roofs, and manifold...

Image


I move on to the chambers, and exhaust side next week.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:01 pm 
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Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
OST: I have a couple of inquiries relative to this entire thread? Specifically, 1.) how do you keep the set screws on the manifold from vibrating loose on a running engine?
2.) What is an approximate cost for you to duplicate a 16V head just like the one in this post?
3.) How many hours of labor does it require to duplicate if you do it.

This post and your pics are outstanding!! You are to be commended for your prowess as a head porter/developer.


1) Locktite 290

Image

2) It depends... Anywhere from $1000 and up... price depends on many things... some excluding my porting work*

LIKE:

Who is supplying the smallport head, and ITB adapter? (smallport heads are tough to come-by recently...)

Is the head in basic usable condition? That means it has the cam caps w/ good journals, it has good valve guides, and good valve seats.

Do you want OEM valves, OEM back cut valves, or aftermarket valves?

You will need aftermarket valve springs to function w/ 9mm lift cams

Do you want Toyota, or aftermarket valve seals?



* - my current pricing for porting work on a 4AG 16V head -

$600 (minimum service) to do the 16 bowls/seats, taper the valve guides, deshroud and balancing chamber volume, exhaust port re-taper, and polishing.
$150 to blend the intake guide bosses and to re-taper port roof - largeport
$175 to blend intake guide bosses, blend port walls, and re-taper port roof - smallport
$100 for machining of the heads surface
$80 for cam journal deburring and polishing, and overall deburring
$80 for hand lapped valves
$60 for re-assembly
$60 to set valve clearances - your supplied camshaft, special order shims not included
$80 to adjust T3 smallport/largeport adapter
$140 to blend T3 ITB manifold for silvertop throttles
$220 to blend T3 ITB manifold for blacktop throttle

Loynings valve jobs - a few hundred to a few thousand


3) Since it isn't finished yet, the best I can give you is a ballpark time estimate - 50 to 60 hours.


Just a small detail for me... but so much easier on my client when it comes to assembly, and fitment... check out the injector port clearancing

Image



More to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:44 am 
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Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:
from another forum wrote:
..how do you keep the set screws on the manifold from vibrating loose on a running engine?

1) Locktite 290

Image


We use about 20 different Loctite products in our aerospace assemblies. Callout for Loctite 242 seems more widely used in critical components.
.

So much to learn from OST builds.
Image

I bow down to you sir m(_ _)m


NEVER bow to another.... you'll miss the performance :P

seriously... I've failed at SOOO many things in my life it isn't funny.. I eventually found something I'm good at... it only took 35 years for me to find it :shock: ... but thank you for the sentiment ;)

I use the 290 for one reason... it is wicking.... (it seeps into the threads and then sets up) The 242, and other thread lockers don't have this capability. Why is wicking important to me... simple really... it allows for fine adjustment in the jackscrews, and once set, I don't have to remove them to apply thread locker...


Now as to how critical it is... it isn't that critical... for once the manifold is bolted tightly(14ft/#s) to the head the jack screws could (theoretically) come out and fall away, the manifold isn't going to move once tightened.




Now as to magic... watch these machining marks disappear.....


going....

Image




Image

gone!

More to come.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:34 pm 
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Image


More to come.... INDEED... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 78
Location: Adelaide South Australia
oldeskewltoy wrote:
bennyd wrote:
Beautiful work OST, I only have experience with cast V8 heads, a fair bit mind you, but admire your work with the far less forgiving little alloy heads.

What do you use as a filling agent when required to reduce port volume and aid Venturi effect? Or is that not a problem when dealing with these type of ports?

Cheers
Benny


Thank you.... :oops:


So far... I've not yet had to fill anything..... So far :shock: There are a few compounds out there I know of, but I have yet to work a head that needs it.

About less forgiving... as well as filling.... another advantage to aluminum is you can weld in more material :tu:


You are welcome, deserving praise IMO

With cast heads I use a 2 part epoxy. Most of the time it's the floors that need raising, to aid with air speed and increase the length of the short radius, completely skipped my mind that you can weld in aluminium, derr :? That would certainly help if your bit took a bit too much out of the soft aluminium compared to the cast I work with.

Again, beautiful, smooth work :tu:

Cheers
Benny

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:05 pm 
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Location: Pac NW
bennyd wrote:
Most of the time it's the floors that need raising, to aid with air speed and increase the length of the short radius


The only head I've come across so far where that would have been an issue... was a Volvo 530 head. It was shelved after cracks between the valves.. BUT it had HORRIBLE short radii... intake and exhaust



Image


#4 is basically finished... 1 down... 3 to go....

Image




More to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:13 pm 

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 8:28 pm
Posts: 180
Location: COSTA RICA, CENTRAL AMERICA.
wow!

Recently the cylinder head of my 4age was worked, and wished it to look like the work you are doing! I really congratulate their dedication :evil: :tu:


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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:21 am 
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Location: Pac NW
errolae92 wrote:
wow!

Recently the cylinder head of my 4age was worked, and wished it to look like the work you are doing! I really congratulate their dedication :evil: :tu:


I have clients from all over the world... if there is a next time... send me an email: oldeskewltoy@yahoo.com

from another forum wrote:
you live so far away :-) would loved to come see you work


I've had a few people ask... I've never worked a head while others are here... it might be too distracting... but with that said, I am thinking of setting up a webcam one of these days.... :shock:



port #3....

Image

2 down... 2 to go..

Image





to get the above 2 panel view I "stuff" the camera into the port... notice the view screen on the camera... note how there is no special lighting

Image


More to come.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
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Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
oldeskewltoy wrote:
I am thinking of setting up a webcam one of these days.... :shock:


I might be able to help you with that. If you setup a camera to take a picture every 10 second, your 50 hours of work can be made into a movie of about 12 minutes ;)



Hmmmm... that would be pretty cool.... I'll get back in touch....


Not quite a movie... but...... here is port 2...

Image


More to come.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:37 pm 
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from another forum wrote:
Those ports look spectacular OST! Great headwork.



thanks... the previous "movie" seems like it worked.... so here's another.... and a trusty 2 panel

Port #1 from stock to not.... :shock:

Image




And with # 1 now finished... here are all four... before and after ;)

Image



More to come.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:05 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
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Location: Pac NW
candamo wrote:
Always follow your posts but I never comment. Great work man. Love your detailed pictures :mrgreen:


thank you....


from another forum wrote:
i really need to make tons and tons of money so i can finally refresh my 20v and send the head to you!!



A ball park figure to just port a 20V head is about $650 ish.... the little bit more would be for the 5th valve bowls and seats. That's less than a pair of 20V cams :eek:

Just so you know... that $650 is just for port work, if you need machine shop work (valves, guides, seats), or intend for me to rebuild the head as well as port it, then the cost does go up for those services.

from another forum wrote:
a master at work


ty.... are you just about ready??? :shock:




Most often, when I'm finished, I show a multi-panel photo showing the progression from undone to finished... kinda like this...

Image




but with my new found gif work.... :)

Image

OST x-mas lights??????


More to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
Some goodies arrived by UPS today..... :shock:


Image

Image

Not only are they well packaged in the shipment box... but the packaging for each cam is very... VERY nice...

Image

Image


and the 2 bump sticks - any guesses as to the grey line around #3 journals?

Image
Image


valve clearances and timing information....
Image



More to come.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:39 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
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Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
That grey line looks a bit like an oil channel.


I thought so too... but when I ran my fingernail across it it was perfectly smooth. I'm not entirely sure... but I have a feeling that is a "control" for Toda to know if the cam was ever in an engine..... I have a feeling that once I install the cam and begin setting clearances, that line will go away.......


The head is currently @ Loynings getting surfaced, and getting a 3 angle along with a back cut.

The seat angles will be more akin to a race engine then a street engine.

Whats the difference??


Valve seat width..... valve contact point on seat

More to come...... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 11:10 am 
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The head is back from Loynings...

Image

They REALLY do a nice job... ;)


That surface is good enough to read in its reflection... no guessing whose product that is... :)

Image




so with the head back, I prepare to get chamber volumes....

Image


I set up the burette...

Image

grease (used as sealant) the valve seat... (notice that 30 degree back cut?)


take my first read.... and it moves..... :o

WHAT... it moves?? :shock:

not really... what is moving is the fluid in the burette... even after closing the valve, fluid continues to weep out :(

Image

the spicket is cracked... when you slip the valve into it, the crack (pointed out by the arrow) spreads and leaks...... :(

I bought this nearly 5 years ago... paid about $120... I went back to the place I purchased it from... the spicket isn't available seperately :x not only that, but my local dealer no longer stocks it so its a week out :evil:

Sooooo, I go online... and viola... a new burette is on its way :) should be here by Tuesday... saved about $80 bucks too. :D


Equipment failure is annoying :(



more to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:51 am 
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Been doing a bit of experimenting while waiting for the burette to arrive...


Image


Image

Image



Image

Image


Later today I'll be removing the pours of OST-026's 1st 2 exhaust ports. Once that is done, I'll fit the valves into OST-026 and pour the chamber. While I do that I'll be pouring the exhaust port from the untouched head....



So... I guess.... more to come.... :tu:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:20 am 
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Location: Pac NW
oldeskewltoy wrote:
Later today I'll be removing the pours of OST-026's 1st 2 exhaust ports. Once that is done, I'll fit the valves into OST-026 and pour the chamber. While I do that I'll be pouring the exhaust port from the untouched head....



So... I guess.... more to come.... :mrgreen:


First the clay is removed, and the valves come out....

Image



Next I use a cork screw....

Image


gradually working it free....

Image



and viola......

Image




The chamber of OST-026 was also poured...

Image



and so was the exhaust port of the untouched head

Image


more to come...... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:08 am 
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Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Interesting... will you make molds/castings of each head you do work on starting with this one?


The supplies, and the time involved don't make it economically feasible to just add it ... BUT I am thinking of offering this as an additional service, for a fee


from another forum wrote:
Good work, I think Jeff did something similar quiet some time back.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


Jeff was doing the 20V intake ports... I'm not sure, but I don't know if he ever did any exhaust bowls/ports


from another forum wrote:
Nice way to compare your job with the original! :thumbs:


Thanks...

speaking about comparing the two.... ;)

Image

Image

The first thing I can tell you... the original exhaust is, without a doubt, a VERY good port. When I say I gain 3-10hp with my work... This port would lend itself to the lower side of my claim.

WHY?

The shape of the original port (bowls) shows a decent casting at both the short, and long radius's. They flow smoothly with little disruption. When I came across a head with nasty bowls, I'll cast it and post it, but for now you'll have to trust me... this original is pretty good.


So where do I gain 3, to lets say 5 hp in this head?

Part of it is in matching the valve seat to the bowl.... but the original design has a slight flaw........ It's "Y" shaped.... so the majority of where I improve the exhaust bowls and ports... even in a good casting... is where the bowls blend into the port......

Image



I turn the "Y"... into a "V"... Less energy to navigate a straight port then one with a kink



from another forum wrote:

Any way we could see a atlantic ported head, chamber and ports.


I can ask Loynings... but I have a feeling they don't like to reveal as much as I'm willing too.... :o

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 6:15 pm 
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That was a learning experience.... :tu:

I'll get back to the castings at a later time, but for now, I'm getting back to OST-026

oldeskewltoy wrote:
Equipment failure is annoying :(





lost a week... :x

but now that I have the new burettte, the chambers get measured...

Image


35cc is the goal. the head was machined .016" (.4mm), and along with my chamber work...

Image

2 chambers came in on target... 2 came in a touch small @ 34.7 cc. I did a little bit of additional work in the chamber walls between the valves on the small two and moved them up to 35cc as well.


With all the chambers @ their intended volume.... I begin re-assembly...

Image




assembly of the head is finished.....

Image



More to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:16 pm 
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oldeskewltoy wrote:
assembly of the head is finished.....




More to come..... :D



note #1 on the exhaust cam and #2 on the intake cam (between cyl 2 and 3)... Since these are the same cam - both 272 ~ 9.0, the fact that they carry sequential numbers is a blessing for me... Why?? because it is now that I have to choose which cam goes where so that I can determine the final clearances....

Image



and to determine the final buckets.... yep I said buckets.

Image

My client is going the 1SZ one piece bucket route and it is up to me to determine the CORRECT bucket for each valve/lobe combination. The buckets above are the thinnest available - 5.12mm

First I check the clearances for the exhaust side...

Image



I then swap the 8 sizing buckets and then I check the intake side....

Image

I can be one of those crazy people who likes things as exact as I can make them.... sometimes, when you are checking valve clearances you sometimes wish you had the capability to measure down to .0005".

Image

This is important when I'm purchasing 16 buckets and they are $12 each, I'd rather not get this wrong....


more to come..... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
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Location: Pac NW
oldeskewltoy wrote:
Image

This is important when I'm purchasing 16 buckets and they are $12 each, I'd rather not get this wrong....



Ok.... since I don't want to get this wrong....... :(

how about a bit of a brain teaser... :shock:


the photo above is an intake cam lobe. Tell me what 1SZ bucket I'll need (10 digit part number, please)???

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