#
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:13 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 5   [ 91 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:08 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
I debated as to where to put this thread since I've primarily have ported Toyota cylinder heads, but recently I added a Mazda to the mix, and I have my hands on a Nissan CA18DET head that I hope to be dissecting soon... and so I'll make a thread in general discussion... and see if it requires moving.


For this first post I'll toss up a number of cherry picked photos so you can get an overall view of what I do. I follow that post with a 2nd showing my current active porting job and follow up with it, and all future jobs in this thread.

So let me introduce to you....

my "headshop"

Image


my flowbench

Image


some custom made testing equipment

Image

Image


A few views at recent jobs...

Image



Image

Image


Not just 4AGE... here is a 7MG head on the flowbench

Image


and work progress on the same head

5 chambers reshaped, one to go...
Image

Image


Image
Image




It isn't just Toyota's, here is a Mazda/Ford 2.2 liter head...

Cylinders 1 and 2...
Image

followed by 3 and 4.
Image



and its going to be used with CONSIDERABLE boost..

Image



More to come....... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:59 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
Image


OST-026 will be a fully ported smallport head. To see the car build this head will be part of - http://club4ag.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1486


I'm still trying to source smallport heads... (got any?? . . . send me a PM) so since I couldn't scrounge one up, this one came out of deep dark storage....

Image







A few more pics...

prior to dis-assembly....

Image


and after....

Image


Still kinda nasty.... but the cam journals show no gouging... :thumbsup:


an intake view...

Image



and one of the exhaust

Image



By the way, this is an uncut head...

Image




More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
I got the head back from it being cleaned... even a good cleaning makes it look better...


Chambers....

Image


exhaust ports...

Image

These look pretty good... there is enough meat on the port roofs to allow me to get a good shape to them.


intake ports...

Image


Lets look at those intake short radius's.... (1 on right, 4 on left)

Image



Hmmm, and on closer inspection...

cyl 1...
Image

cyl 2...
Image

cyl 3...
Image

cyl 4...
Image



I'll be earning my fee on those....... :lol:


More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:12 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:25 pm
Posts: 223
Location: DeeCee Calif. Pampanga
The work looks top notch. Keep it up.

_________________
Souped Up By:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
migz808 wrote:
The work looks top notch. Keep it up.


Thanks... I try, sometimes the heads are easier... and sometimes tougher....


Well... the first task for me is always deburring the head. I do this first for a simple reason... I'll be handling this head quite a bit, and if I remove all the casting flash, and machined edge sharpness, I'll be doing my hands a big favor..... Image


Below are a couple of 2 panel, before and after of the deburring process.

Image

Above is the last four bucket cylinders, and last 2 cam journals (#4 and #5) on the exhaust side of the engine.


And here are the first 4 bucket cylinders and cam journals #2 and #3 for the intake cam

Image


More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
oldeskewltoy wrote:

Hmmm, and on closer inspection...

cyl 1...
Image

cyl 2...
Image

cyl 3...
Image

cyl 4...
Image




So... any opinions as to which one is the worst???

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Hmm. Number 3 looks to be worst from the photos but just becasue of that I'm going to say number 2 ;)


Reminds me (your indecision) of an old "Let's Make a Deal" (Monty Hall era).... :D



"Well, contestant, your first instinct was correct, you should have stuck with chamber #3........"

"oh Monty..." :(


The reason I chose #3 was the factory machining mark came right to the edge of the seat, it had a big nasty under cut in the port floor, and the splitter was poorly machined covering a big part of the seat.

Image

Besides the bowl work... can anyone tell me what else I did that isn't inside the bowls?



Once I managed to get the bowls, and short radius worked out, it was time to begin the port work...

Image

Look past the short radius, into the port. The left side has been reshaped, note the light line from port face to the guide. The right side I've not yet touched, and you can see the "pocket" in front of the guide that I have yet to "excavate"



Image

All the rough work has been finished on the left(#3), you can see the bowl walls are beginning to blend into the port, the bowls, seats and ports on the right(#2) are still untouched.


oldeskewltoy wrote:
I'll be earning my fee on those....... :lol:



nearly 6 hours worth of work on #3's seats, bowls, and port.



More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Looks great, thanks for the pictures and the nice explanations!


I try... :) besides, I enjoy doing it


from another forum wrote:
Amazing work....


You make me blush... Image

from another forum wrote:
Quote:
Besides the bowl work... can anyone tell me what else I did that isn't inside the bowls?


I spot a deburred/smoothed edge to the sparkplug hole.


correct! You can see it again in chamber 4 below


And here are the short radius's of intake 4, as above... before on top

Image



Besides the short radius's, I'm also working the intake ports themselves. intake port 4 in mid "excavation"

Image




and after roughing to size... a bit more work left....

Image





another OST 2 panel... 2 down... 2 to go

Image



One of the problems with the 16V 4AGE design is the ports are horizontal. Being horizontal, the air/fuel charge must make a pretty significant turn to reach the back of the valve. In the diagram below you can see what I'm talking about

Image

Both the newer 4AF/7AF port, and the Formula One port are NOT horizontal, this allows for more cylinder filling, and therefore more power potential.

I borrowed the 4AG part of that diagram, enlarged it, and in typical OST fashion I've created a 2 panel that hopefully will show why I work the port roof.... In essence, I've adjusted the port roof a few degrees, this will assist the air/fuel charge to have an easier time making the bend, because adjusting the port roof the way I have is allowing the air/fuel charge to have a shallower angle to get to the valve... only a few degrees... but it all helps!

Image


Now, away from diagrams and to real life....

Image

Image




More to come...... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:33 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
Well the next piece to the puzzle arrived today.... a T3 smallport ITB adapter

Image

Overall it came in good condition... although those 2 scratches in the far left flange... I have no idea how they got there... but they are just surface scratches, gaskets will seal that perfectly.



A 2 panel showing the manifolds fitment on the head...

Image


The adapter WILL NEED some OST special attention... I will need to modify the manifold a bit by adding small set screws to the end mounting points so the fit is perfect...

By the way... which of the two above views do I want to set the manifold too?? (top view is correct, or bottom view is correct?)


Besides the addition of "jack screws", the manifold needs the machining marks blended, and, potentially, the opening changed to accommodate blacktop ITBs.

Personally... I think silvertop throttles are more than adequate to make power... and keep up the air velocity


More to come...... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:11 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Top view is correct. The roof is connected with the adaptor correct to allow the airflow flow without big restrictions.

Is that correct? :D


I'm not sure you have it, I believe(not sure by how you described it) your visual is perceiving it correctly... but you don't quite have the grasp on what you see. First, the views are upside down... the top of each photo is actually the floor of the port.

So if you were going for roof alignment, then the choice was the bottom one... but this is a highly technical question.... and it somewhat refers back to changing the port roof angle. The VERY LAST thing I want to touch is any ports floor just before it bends to the valve. So if I position the manifold to the very bottom edge of the port, and hold that as my constant, I can then add a bit more angle to the port roof by matching the port to the manifolds roof. So the top view is correct, but because by placing it that way I can further increase the port roof angle....

and to paraphrase Margaret Stewart.... , "and that's a good thing" Image


A hint... before you look at anything of mine describing ports/bowls/valves... always look for the cues that tell you if it is port/bowls/valves up, or down


The 4 manifold/port/bowls...


#1

Image


#2

Image


These will be my controls... Since this is the first time I've worked an ITB manifold and the matching head.

#3

Image


#4

Image


note how all of them, even the 2 ports mostly shaped... can still benefit for a bit more removed from the roof...



It is also more than it appears...

Image



So besides now being able to further raise the roof, I also need to shape the inside of the itb manifold too


Image




The T3 manifold has a mild slope built into them, the round boring, which is also the mounting face of the ITB, is @ a shallow angle, while the manifold boring is horizontal, similar to the head. Where these two bored holes meet will also be ported...

Image

Image

The floors machined edge will get blended to minimize air disturbance directly behind the throttle plates.... I'm also working on a way to minimize those vacuum ports....



other person in forum above wrote:
I'm wondering what will turn out of this, because I've done the same thing (smallport head, T3 adapter, Blacktop 45mm ITBs) last year, with the same ideas, and I had to remove a "half kg" of aluminium from the head to look like something good flowing thing. What cams will you(costumer) use for this setup, with what C/R ?



Cams... Toda 272 9.00mm lift... 1SZ buckets.... I've advised... the client to purchase a set of silvertop throttles... the blacktop throttles are unnecessary

I'm only doing the head work... but I'm advising a 4-4.25cc piston dome, as flat as possible... made for STANDARD valves... NOT OVERSIZE.(will provide a static CR between 11.9 and 12.9 depending on his choice of chamber volume (36cc down to 33cc) Final squish should be .9mm(.035"), deck and gaskets is by choice as long as squish gets to .035" and no less!


More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:54 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
oldeskewltoy wrote:
Image


Image

the top view is port 4... the lower is port 3....
Image

Image

I've only worked the top of port #3(bottom of right port in photo below), but I'm beginning to see something I thought might be there.... (kinda like a sculptor seeing the image he intends to sculpt within his medium... :shock: )

Image


Can you see what I see???



More to come.... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:13 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
I love learning :-)
Can we see pics of the jack screws, please.


Performed on both end mounting points.... apologies in advance... I used my cell phone for these photos

Image


the holes are drilled 3 times, 1st with 5/64 bit, then 5/32 bit, and finish with 13/64 bit. Then tapped to a 6 x 1.00 thread

Image


Once both sides are tapped... thread in the jack screws. Since I threaded it to 6 x 1.00, I used 6 x 1.00 set type screws that use an Allen drive.


Right side... (#1)

Image


and the left....... (#4)

Image



both sides now adjusted so the floor of the adapter meets the tapered edge of the intake port.



More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:24 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Thee work you do dan is just unreal


Image


:D







In the 2 photos below you can see the mounting hole is no longer round, but it is now oval-ized.


oldeskewltoy wrote:
Image



oldeskewltoy wrote:
Image


This procedure is performed with a 1/4" sanding drum. It could be performed with a cutting tool as well... although taking longer... the drum is far more forgiving

Image

To have the ability to raise the manifold, the bottom of the bolt holes were worked. HINT - the rotary tool will tend to pull the tool to the right as you work the mounting holes(tools torque) YOU must compensate... otherwise instead of elongating you'll produce something comma shaped.



More to come...... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:41 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:16 am
Posts: 78
Location: Adelaide South Australia
Beautiful work OST, I only have experience with cast V8 heads, a fair bit mind you, but admire your work with the far less forgiving little alloy heads.

What do you use as a filling agent when required to reduce port volume and aid Venturi effect? Or is that not a problem when dealing with these type of ports?

Cheers
Benny

_________________
GonzoRacer wrote:
All too often I say "I can build something nicer than that" and I'm looking at my own build log...

2 x N360 restoration projects


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:32 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
bennyd wrote:
Beautiful work OST, I only have experience with cast V8 heads, a fair bit mind you, but admire your work with the far less forgiving little alloy heads.

What do you use as a filling agent when required to reduce port volume and aid Venturi effect? Or is that not a problem when dealing with these type of ports?

Cheers
Benny


Thank you.... :oops:


So far... I've not yet had to fill anything..... So far :shock: There are a few compounds out there I know of, but I have yet to work a head that needs it.

About less forgiving... as well as filling.... another advantage to aluminum is you can weld in more material :tu:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
Before and after.... All views are upside down....


manifold, port, bowls (#2) before any work is performed


Image


manifold, port, bowls (#3) after sizing, before finishing - note the port roof taper is smooth from throttle body mount to both bowls

Image



The port floors taper where it meets the manifold... before on top....

Image

After(still some finishing work required) on the bottom. I made the port floors taper less severe by moving it back about double its stock distance from the manifold mounting edge.


Image



Now, back to the ports of #2 and #3....

Image

The purple line shows the original taper on the left, and on the right you can see the new taper is about twice the depth... but note the port floor, where it turns to go to the valve (green line) is the SAME. The yellow box outlines the amount of material removed from the front roof of the port. Yet still inside the Toyota intake manifold gasket :D



The manifold is now nearly finished

Image


More to come..... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:47 am
Posts: 307
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Don't suppose you've ever done any work on a 22R-E head at all? :P

Excellent thread though! I do enjoy seeing detailed threads on headwork.

_________________
The kei
The Celica


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:21 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
ill-minded wrote:
Don't suppose you've ever done any work on a 22R-E head at all? :P


Not yet.... I do have half of an 8R head :shock: I might play around with when I get slow....


ill-minded wrote:
Excellent thread though! I do enjoy seeing detailed threads on headwork.


Thanks...... Odd you bring it up... I realized today that I don't post these threads for self-congratulation.... I post these threads so I have a purpose to take photos of my work......


Huh???

What??

You read that correctly... I wouldn't be nearly as good as I am... if I didn't take photos. Great example is this next view.....

Image


I took this photo after another 5+ hour session, this time after working intake port #2.... or so I thought "after"....


Port 2 looks pretty good, but take a closer look... the roof (photo is upside down so "floor" in view) shows a bit more of the roof then either ports 3 or 4...

Sure enough... port 2's roof is a bit too steep... which means the taper back to the base of the guide boss is incorrect

Image

So I went back and adjusted it...... :wink:

I can't speak to you about other porters... but I find posting all of my work an important ingredient in the finished product.


btw.... more to come.... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:51 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
Neat pics, I don't think we went it to too much detail about head work though.

I'm still collecting parts for my build


Some people like to see... but as I alluded too, I like to see, and if I didn't make these posts... I seriously doubt I'd be as good as I am.



3 down... one to go

Image

if you look carefully inside port 2, you can see where I adjusted the port roof for a more consistent taper.


Here is a close up before and after of port 3, this time instead of a 2 panel... a sliding gif... to show the work on port 3

Image


and now port 4 in mid work...

Image



More to come.... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Oldeskewltoy's Headshop....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:47 am
Posts: 441
Location: Pac NW
from another forum wrote:
I thought the T3 adapter would have better fitment.

My previous experience with a T3 adapter

Image
Image

solution... slotted bolt holes with jackscrews

Image


from another forum wrote:
Good call on the ports though. But wouldn't it be easier to use a 20V engine instead of welding in parts to the head and rebuilding a complete intake plenum?


20V has problems of its own... and besides it is easy enough to make a 16V, especially a smallport, make similar power on similar specs .


As far as welding and completely new custom manifold... I have yet to add any material to any head I've worked.

I understand that Hasslegren adds (welds in) extra metal into the area of the stock injector ports, I know Loynings has figured out a way to significantly raise the ports with out welding. In both of these cases this is for professional racing, and so INVE$MENT is part of every last horsepower.

The 4AGE is a GREAT example of INVE$MENT... when Toyota was running the series they needed 12,000 rpm to make "only" 240 hp. These days... they are making close to 270hp, and only twisting them to 10,000 rpm to do it! Now the investment to get to 270hp @ 10k was likely close to $1,000,000 :shock:



Now back to work.... remember those short radius's - radii??

Image


How about a bit closer...


#1...

Image


#2...

Image


#3...

Image


#4...

Image



More to come...... :mrgreen:

_________________
Information = POWER


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 5   [ 91 posts ]
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net