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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
RaptorReed wrote:
Ooo AEM, I have Megasquirt :wink:. I just noticed this, but you still have the alternator in stock location, what's the clearance like with the turbo? Obviously having powersteering (I don't need that stuff) creates issues for turbo intake piping :lol:.


Funny you should ask that. The alternator has never been a problem in terms of clearance or otherwise... but that F'n power steering pump.... god. That is the 3rd pump. for some reason the 4G64 just eats them for breakfast. All of the nipples and pipes on it have had to be bent or somehow custom hacked to get clearance and angles just right and each pump starts out fine and then just ends up leaking like a sunk ship. All the hoses are double clampped! :lol:

With the new motor we're really looking in to this and thinking about maybe switching to a different generation pump... or maybe back to the Starion pump... which honestly leaked a whole lot less, but still required finagling with the fittings. Also with going full stand alone I can get rid of the AFM so that may provide us with a few additional configurations for the intake pipe.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 438
Location: tumwater, WA
Ah gotcha, yeah with the MS I have speed density and from what the experience I had on my gvr4 with speed density...it rocks. You could just run a filter on the turbo if you wanted :wink:.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Yup! Get rid of that crappy AFM and just run a pipe with a filter. That factory DSM AFM is a beast... so I'm hoping that getting rid of it will enable us to swivel the intake down and buy some room for the power steering lines.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Ok, some updates... Slow progress, but we are so close we can taste it!

Last few shots I have of the block before assembly:
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Andre @ Pina Motorsports, once again demonstrating his flawless fabrication skills with this custom water-neck:
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Here it is in place:
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More custom fabrication. New water piping:
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shot of the back of the engine so you can see the route of that obnoxious water pipe. I was surprised to see the POR-15 flaking off the inside of the trans tunnel, LOL.
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Some finishing touches:
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New TiAL BOV. the old Greddy one I had was broken and never actuated properly:
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Used EVO 9 FMIC. the old EVO 8 FMIC I had on there had a small fracture in it that was causing a boost leak.
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All new custom fabricated aluminum piping throughout to replace all the old shitty steel stuff that was in there:
Also notice the absence of the AFM :D The car is now running full stand alone AEM :tu:
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At a glance the engine looks the same... but a keen eye will spot the differences.
From the old build we re-used the pistons, rods (except for one rod that we replaced due to a balacing issue), Valve-train, cams, cam-gears, manifolds, turbo, wastegate, valve-cover and the fuel system. We threw out and replaced the Bottom and and crank, the head, all of the piping, the BOV, the AFM and the ECU.

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At this point the engine has been filled with oil and coolant and pressurized to the max load and no leaks at all! Mechanically it's ready for the dyno. The thing that's been delaying the dyno tune is the crank-trigger sensor. A while back we updated to this guy, and it seems to be incompatible with the AEM. As best Andre can determine the phase or the signal either isn't correct, or isn't strong enough to trigger the AEM. So hes been working around the clock to see if he can upgrade the design, or if the manufacturer has a new AEM compatible version:
Here's the problem trigger sensor seen on the left:
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So the bad news is that it looks like the car won't make the Old School Reunion meet this weekend. Which is too bad as I was really looking forward to this all year. But the good news is that this car is about to be back on the road with a proper engine and tune that should end up lsting the life of the car... at least as long as I own it.

I'll post photos and video of the dyno tune whenever we get to it!

Stay tuned.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Ah forgot to mention we threw out the old throttle body too. We are running a new unit.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:23 am
Posts: 6
Location: Dallas, TX
It will pick it up although i wouldn't be surprised if you had to manually assign tooth values.
If you logging anything on the t2 or t3 it will get it.

The series 2 hate low voltage, it will not pick up t3 under 12v.


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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:23 am
Posts: 6
Location: Dallas, TX
attack vector wrote:
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Those are not studs, what are you measuring?


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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Updates!

ligo12 wrote:
It will pick it up although i wouldn't be surprised if you had to manually assign tooth values.
If you logging anything on the t2 or t3 it will get it.

The series 2 hate low voltage, it will not pick up t3 under 12v.


I think Andre eventually figured this out after going back and forth with the guy who makes the trigger sensor, and the guys at AEM. Eventually he soldered a resistor on to the PCB of the AEM unit to remedy the voltage situation, and then the car fired right up! For a while Andre thought that perhaps the low tooth resolution on the trigger sensor was the culprit, but all of his sleuthing around with the oscilloscope lead him to the low voltage problem. I'm sure I'm omitting a lot of crucial details from this entire process because I'm not a mechanic or an electrical engineer. But this was the gist of the situation.

here is the AEM PCB:
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Here is the 10K ohm resistor Andre installed to rectify the voltage issue.
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And here it is! The car is RUNNING in this photo :tu:
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Next stop... Dyno tune! Probably on Monday.

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ligo12 wrote:
Those are not studs, what are you measuring?

Honestly I don't know. I'll have to ask Andre and get back to you.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:58 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
ligo12 wrote:
Those are not studs, what are you measuring?

Honestly I don't know. I'll have to ask Andre and get back to you.[/quote]

From Andre:
"I am tightening the rod bolt by measuring rod bolt stretch instead of tightening them with a torque wrench."

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:36 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Seattle, Washington
Glad to see you up and running again & ready to enjoy it for the summer. Wish my skyline was done, but it still has a long way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Davboy wrote:
Glad to see you up and running again & ready to enjoy it for the summer. Wish my skyline was done, but it still has a long way to go.


Thanks Davboy! Sorry to hear that your skyline is down. Are you doing a build-up? Simply restoring? Either way I'll look forward to seeing again at a meet. Do you think you'll be done this summer or is this a long-haul kinda thing?

On the Starion, we're not quite out of the woods yet. There is a fuel delivery problem. On the dyno fuel pressure drops when under boost. We currently suspect one of the two fuel pumps. Nothing is ever easy.

I'll post news when I have some.

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:36 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Seattle, Washington
Yeah nothing is easy with a modded car. As for the Skyline I am not revealing too much, lets just say faster, shinier and some parts from Japan . Trying to get the car finished by early September so I can take it to JCCS. I'll try to pay attention to the local meets, maybe one with a drive. I'd like to see your Starion in action some time. We can see how it pulls compared to my 350z :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
:lol: Well, I'm sure your 350Z would get a jump on the Starion. The Starion is fast... but not in a real performant kinda way. It's more like strapping a solid rocket booster to a dump truck.

Either way looking forward to seeing your refreshed D30 with those new shiny parts on it!

Speaking of JCCS, I won't make it this year because my wife is due with our first kid in September. But I've discussed attending the event with my wife every year after. She loved the idea provided we trailer the Starion, and make it down via a nice scenic drive on the pacific coast hwy. Not sure what everyone's plans are or if there are regular caravans that head down there from here... but hooking up with a bunch of people every year to make the pilgrimage in a group would be a blast!

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:56 pm
Posts: 438
Location: tumwater, WA
This year is out of the cards for me too, so maybe we'll both caravan and trailer our cars down ;)

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Finally... a major major milestone coming to an end.

The car has been dyno'd and is now sitting at home in my garage. Andre @ Pina Motorsports is a world-class engine builder and systems engineer and he did an outstanding job on the car. I can't say enough good things about the guy and his professional work ethic and skill.

With a forged 2.4 4G64 running a 20G turbo the car threw down a respectable 490 crank HP, 433 @ the rear wheels and 414 Ft. lbs. of Torque.
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You know your car can kill you when your engine builder has to give you a systems operation briefing before you drive it home :lol:
http://youtu.be/oH_ymbyE7r4?hd=1

And here's me being a noob trying to get used to the road-racing clutch after being away from the car for a year. my Turbo MR2 got me all soft. LOL! :oops:
http://youtu.be/YIKOPLSCqlw?hd=1

All said, the car still needs a lot of work... some new brakes for starters, Hahaha. For some people they probably think this is pretty modest... for me it's a monster. On the drive home I couldn't find a stretch of road long enough or straight enough to wind this beast out. Once you drop the hammer and that 20G spools up it eats up road so fast before you know it there's nothing left. A truly terrifying... and awesome car.

F*CK YEAH.

Next year.... SUPRA R154 TRANSMISSION SWAP!!!! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:36 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Seattle, Washington
Wow those are good #'s especially on a Dyno Dynamics they tend to read lower then dynojets, you must be able to spin your wheels in 3rd on the freeway. Enjoy that new found power.

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'76 912E
'83 DR30 SKYLINE
'85 300ZX
'03 350Z TWIN TURBO
'07 MAZDA 3 HATCH
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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Davboy wrote:
Wow those are good #'s especially on a Dyno Dynamics they tend to read lower then dynojets, you must be able to spin your wheels in 3rd on the freeway. Enjoy that new found power.


Thanks Dave! I haven't really dropped it from a dig... but the car probably will spin in 3rd gear. I can tell you that I have zero traction in first and second :lol:

I really gotta get some safety equipment in that thing before I start testing the limits of the machine. As I mentioned above brakes are abysmal and the rotors are warped. Also I'm not entirely sure that the factory seat-belt system is functioning properly. Also the car desperately needs an alignment. Still some work to do, but at least it's back on the road!

How's the Skyline coming along? Will it be back on the road by next season?

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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:36 pm
Posts: 112
Location: Seattle, Washington
Yeah once you have a car thats fast you realize how important good brakes are. On my Z I was able to replace the rotors with slotted ones, got some aggressive street pads, switched to stainless brake lines and used some ATE super blue brake fluid... I found this to be a good combo for street use for my wimpy calipers.

as for the Skyline engine is out and its getting ready for body work and engine bay paint. Looks like it will be back on the road for next year.

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'76 912E
'83 DR30 SKYLINE
'85 300ZX
'03 350Z TWIN TURBO
'07 MAZDA 3 HATCH
'09 ACURA RDX


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 Post subject: Re: A Starion Story (4G64/3 Starion build)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 141
Location: Mill Creek WA
Davboy wrote:
Yeah once you have a car thats fast you realize how important good brakes are. On my Z I was able to replace the rotors with slotted ones, got some aggressive street pads, switched to stainless brake lines and used some ATE super blue brake fluid... I found this to be a good combo for street use for my wimpy calipers.

as for the Skyline engine is out and its getting ready for body work and engine bay paint. Looks like it will be back on the road for next year.



That's pretty much the upgrade plan for my brakes. I don't intend to upgrade the calipers.
Good to hear that the skyline is moving along! Hope you keep that awesome pin-stripe pattern in the interior. Your car is definitely one of my most favorite JNC's out there, I'll be looking forward to seeing it all refreshed next season. Next summer will be better for me as well. The car will be back on the road and by then and our kid will be born so we'll be more mobile. Right now my wife is basically ready to deliver any day so that's keeping us bouncing back and forth from the house to the hospital. Fun times! :D

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