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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 183
Location: UK
Yeah, I'd go with the new jets. From a fine-tuning point of view, setting cars on fire never really helps.

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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
i might feel better till i realize just how much money i just burned LOLZ

as soon as i know where to start i will place the order!


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
just found this, and it matches some numbers on a guide that i had saved in my fav's folder. might look into trying these parts to see if it works.
http://www.gracieland.org/cars/techtalk/weboem.html


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:28 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:41 am
Posts: 42
hi there,
I'm not a guru with webers or mikunis but I messed a little with normal carbs,
if your engine is rattling (vibrating) try to check the fuel mixture screw (it could be that the fuel screw is damaged and air is slipping directly through it "vaccum leak", what i think of as well that you might find strange is that you should check your cam lifters clearance on that piston, it could be that the valve is opened for a longer time than it should and keep pouring fuel making it wet so the the spark is not going to burn it.
at end you could have a non lighten propane torch around the suspected carb to find the vaccum leak, don't assume that the manifold gasket is ok as it could be the cause of the trouble. :o


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
not sure if i feel like wasting money on this right now since i plan to piece together an L31 when i get back to the USA for it, so looks like tomorrow i will be putting the SU's back on for a while :(
My blaster II just shipped today, i have the MSD box ready to install, and i ordered some good plugs, and a new cap. now its all just going to have to wait. how depressing is that!


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:07 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
OMG..
i can build SR20's and KA24's all day long.. give me a simple engine with a carb and I'm guaranteed to FARK it up :(

SU's are on, car refuses to start. tried playing with the timing, tried starting fluid. its so weird.
plugs 1&6 dry
2&5 soaked
3&4 dry fouled.

WTH am i doing wrong?

i have damper oil in the carbs, the ONLY thing I've done differently is i don't have the choke cable so i don't have the ability to choke the carbs. I've tried lightly lifting the choke lever while my wife turns the key, and the only thing it does is cough to life then immediately die, over and over and over. I've covered the intakes, I've fluttered the throttle lever, played with the timing, nothing is working.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
great website with tons of real info on SU's
http://www.sportsimports.ca/archive/technicaltips/att06.htm


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
got really frustrated, and pulled the pertronix components out, put the oem points back on, and it started on the first crank.

guess i will have to roll with points till i get to the USA and can convert to a ZX dizzy. i will pull the SU's back off tomorrow and put the webs beck on. the SU's are leaking fuel anyway.

is anyone even reading this LOL


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:39 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Sydney, Australia
wookieballa wrote:
just did compression test, all the numbers are within 5psi of each other ranging from 125-130psi.

as soon as i get some numbers for what others are running in their DCOE40's I'm going to order new internals, AND new plugs. I'm super irritated with this whole damn thing.

advancing and retarding is not changing anything at this point, and adjusting the mixture screw i get to where the plugs are no longer fouling, BUT at this point all the carbs have about 1/8th of a turn left on the mixture screws, and then they are fully closed, at that point it doesn't could the plugs, BUT it also will NOT idle at all, if i keep tapping the pedal it will run, but as soon as i let off it shuts off, I've even tried re-syncing the carbs at this point and bringing the idle up, but it does not stay running at all. if i go back to baseline on the mixture acre (1.5 turns to start with then adjust from there) the car starts fin and idles ok, but will not drive, just pops and sputters, and fouls the plugs.

at this point, I'm jut going to set the car on fire.. no wait, thats not what my plan is, I'm going to order the jets that are suggested to me. I've messaged Kev, but no reply yet. he sent me a good set of numbers, and i did NOT make the order, i just tried rolling with what my carbs came with, and that was ok last summer, but now i can't get it to run at all

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, tim, been sick as a dog all week :(

As for jetting, as long as it's 40-something (F8 or F9) on the idle jet then it's close to the money. For the remaining main/corrector sizes, something like a 125main and 175 corrector would be pretty good. So your current jetting isn't that far out of whack (it seems quite common for Japanese webers to be set up a notch on the rich side) and certainly wouldn't be the cause of your problems.

The E in the NGK plug is AFAIK, just to denote that the electrode has a groove in it, and the non-E ones have a plain flat end. 11 means they are pre-gapped to 1.1mm which will be too big for points though, you need more like a 0.8mm gap.

Have you checked the state of your leads? Measure the resistance from end to end with a multimeter, none of them should be more than say 20 kilo ohms.

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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
Hey Kev, i haven't checked the leads this go around, i did when i installed the carbs last year and they were perfect, i will try that. I've gotten it kinda close, its drivable, but pops and sputters.

a friend of mine is calling a local shop to see if they can take a look at it. i really wanted to do this myself, but my ideas are not panning out, so i will call someone who knows what they are doing.

it seems like it would be really simple to tune these carbs if you have the right guts in them, get the balance, then fine tune the mixture.
I've been driving around the block and pulling the plugs and tuning it down based on their condition, but its not improving anything. oh well. i will let you guys know the outcome.

sorry you were sick mate! hope you are feeling better now


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:32 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
wookieballa wrote:
Hey Kev, i haven't checked the leads this go around, i did when i installed the carbs last year and they were perfect, i will try that. I've gotten it kinda close, its drivable, but pops and sputters.

a friend of mine is calling a local shop to see if they can take a look at it. i really wanted to do this myself, but my ideas are not panning out, so i will call someone who knows what they are doing.

it seems like it would be really simple to tune these carbs if you have the right guts in them, get the balance, then fine tune the mixture.
I've been driving around the block and pulling the plugs and tuning it down based on their condition, but its not improving anything. oh well. i will let you guys know the outcome.

sorry you were sick mate! hope you are feeling better now

Hmmm...okay. I'm gonna bet you a green tea KitKat :) that the problem all along is insufficient juice at the coil.

Check the +VE low tension terminal on the coil to see if it is getting a consistent 12V. I get the feeling that what you might have, is a bad connection at the key barrel, and so your coil is not playing with a full deck. It might also explain why the pertronix didn't work, because an electronic system is more hungry for current, which just wasn't being delivered by the coil.

So I reckon, check the power supply to the coil, it's either weak or inconsistent.

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
i will check that, I've been reading on the classic Z forums that the pertronix works best with an aftermarket coil, so I'm betting that you are spot on!, so more fuel/air, and weak spark. sounds like this could be the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Sydney, Australia
I don't mean that there is an issue with the coil itself, I mean that the wiring to the coil isn't providing it with the full amount of juice. If you measure it and it's an intermittent 3V or something, then that's your problem right there :)

As an analogy, it's like a blockage in the fuel line going to the engine. Installing a bigger engine to fix the issue will just make it seem worse :)

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
i recall you saying you had to add a power wire to your coil right? I'm out of town for a couple of days, so i will start working on the ideas you have given when i get back.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Posts: 2209
Location: Sydney, Australia
wookieballa wrote:
i recall you saying you had to add a power wire to your coil right? I'm out of town for a couple of days, so i will start working on the ideas you have given when i get back.

Yes I did. I didn't trust the stock wiring to supply full-juice, so the stock cool power wire is now just used to trigger a relay, that has a permanent power feed direct from battery.

Actually, come to think of it, you could simulate this out one by running a +VE wire straight to cool, just temporarily to see if that fixes it.

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
tell me how to do that as if i were 3 years old LOL
when you say cool wire, are you talking about the negative wire on the battery/ground?

does ANYONE know what the stock timing should be on an L20?

i got the new cap, and plugs in the mail, also the new coil, so tonight i plan to go out and start testing stuff out to see if i have a short in the leads, or if the power to the coil is inefficient. anythings possible, and this will make me want to buy and install a painless harness even more now.

i havent touched the car in about a week, so hopefully it will start. my optima seems to be on its last leg. damn this car is just rapidly going downhill. :(


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2209
Location: Sydney, Australia
Attach a wire very securely to the +ve low tension post on the coil. Run it around the front of the car, and attach it to the +ve terminal on the battery. This hardwires the coil to the battery, so that it eliminates any doubt about whether the stock wiring is providing enough juice to drive the ignition system. Don't leave it hooked up like this any longer than you have to, it's just for a test. If it runs like a champ straight away, then I'd say your stock wiring isn't man enough to drive the ignition anymore, and you need to rig up a relay.

For triple carbs, I'd say that 12-14 BTDC would be a good starting point.

But before you try any of this...all the ground wires from block to chassis are ok, right?

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
yea, i even added some really nice negative battery cables that i added to a ground "bridge" if you will? so i have some really nice 2 or maybe 4 gauge wiring that grounds it really well.

i will try this as soon as the wether clears. its rainy out today, so i didn't get to mess with the car, if i had a garage i would have been out there as soon as i got off work, but i don't have that luxury right now.

do you have a digram showing how you ran the relay?
thanks again for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
had a little time before it got dark today, so i tested my leads, they are JDM Ultra 8mm's i couldn't find any data showing what the numbers should be, so i just compared the numbers from my Ohmmeter. all the numbers were very close, like almost identical. i may have used the wrong scale, but i think they are just fine.

swapped in the new dizzy cap i ordered, (old now had some corrosion on the terminals inside)

no change.

next i will check the voltage going to the coil. it got really foggy, and dark though so i just closed the bonnet and walked away.

things i still plan to do: check timing (timing light i borrowed didn't work for some reason)
i still have all this new gear (MSD 6AL, Blaster coil, and that pertronix module) but i want to see if i can work out this problem with the OEM parts before i add more variables to the equation.


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 Post subject: Re: trouble balancing ONE carb!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
Posts: 382
Location: Misawa Japan
welp..

it is ALIVE!

i re-read a few weber links, and realized that i was totally offing up the whole process.

unhooked the linkages

re-set the idle screws the way they are supposed to be. (touching the lever, then back 1/4 turn)

set the idle mixture screws to their baseline (1 full turn out)

from there my car SHOULD have started, and barely ran, it did not run at all, so with the assistance of the wife, i bumped the linkages just enough to keep the car running till i could get the idle mixture screws to a point where the car would stay on without my help. finally i found the sweet spot, and voila it was all money!

i found that my old coil was dead, when i checked the ohms, the numbers were all over the place, very erratic, when i tested the new MSD blaster i had just gotten in the mail the numbers were solid, threw that in, swapped in the new plugs, fired it up, and BAM! it runs great. i need to play with the timing, as the car doesn't pull as hard as i remember it pulling, but then again, I'm used to my wife's STI, and my S15 silvia, which both have gobs more power. i will keep playing with it a little, but till i get home (9 months) I'm not changing ANYTHING major. so no electronic pertronix ignition, no MSD box. I'm just going to enjoy driving it LOL

Thanks for all the suggestions and help!

i am so glad i didn't take it to a shop, i definitely learned a LOT about these carbs during the many hours of researching!


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