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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:58 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Seattle WA USA
Man, I love the Bellett. I'm loving this thread. Keep it up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:59 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:11 pm
Posts: 96
Location: Pearland Tx.
I absolutely dig the car, it looks like such a classic Rally car! Those fogs complete the look!


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:54 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Thank you guys so much for the comments! I really wish I had more time to work on this beast, haha. As soon as the Mitsubishi gets finished (which will be pretty soon) this car will really start to boogy. We had a long holiday here called Golden Week so my parents came to visit. We did a massive road trip around Lake Biwa, into Kyoto, down to Hiroshima, then across all of Shikoku, into Kobe and Osaka and finally back home. After the trip we had a few days of downtime so my Dad and I went down to the garage and tore into the Bellett for a bit!

First thing we did was get the heater and related vents out.

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Genuine Isuzu car parts, haha. You just don't see stuff like this anymore, haha.

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The resulting empty space.

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Then we got the windshield wiper motor out.

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And the front seats out.

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The carpet is just generic automotive rolls, but they were too skinny so there was about 10 pieces cut to different sizes and laid down to cover the whole floor. I'm going to have to come up with a better solution.

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Rear seats out.

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Below the rear seats was house carpet held on with double sided tape. Come to think of it, just about everything not factory was held on with double sided tape, and this tape is the best/worst double sided tape I've ever seen, it's invincible. Even now, after several years, it still has more grip than most new double sided tape.

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The rear tray was just a piece of wood held in with wood screws, haha! I laugh, but it worked and looked good enough that I may put it back in!

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Original carpet and sound deadening.

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The added crap.

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Seat belts and accelerator pedal came out as well.

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Along with the door weather stripping.

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Then we got the lower inside door trim and rear wire harness out as well.

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She sure does look empty inside now.

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We tried to remove the gas tank, but it's glued and bolted in. It did not want to budge so this is where we called it a day.

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She's slowly getting there!

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Thanks again everyone!
Cheers
David

_________________
1967 LT23 Mitsubishi 360 // 1967 L10A Cosmo Sports // 1971 S30 Fairlady Z // 1973 PR95 Bellett 1800 GT // 1973 Honda Life // 1988 Z31 300 ZX SS // 1996 EK11 March 1.3 // 1997 AC15 Dream 50
My Homepage: http://sites.google.com/site/nakazoto/home


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:58 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Seattle WA USA
The gas tank is bolted and glued in? I've never seen that before. The tear down is looking good, though. Seriously, the Bellett is one of my all-time favorite cars, so it's good to see one getting cleaned up and (eventually) put back on the road.

I wish the US had a Golden Week. I could use a week off right about now.

Oh, yeah, it looks like you're going to have to update your sig.

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:54 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:57 am
Posts: 70
Location: Folsom, CA
Very Nice, I love the detailed pictures since I can use them down the line if I have to do anything to my Bellet :mrgreen: so thanks in advance !!


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:51 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:54 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Holy mother of bringing posts back from the dead batman!
Alright alright, so I've been MIA on this project for a while. That is largely due to trying to button up my 360 (which still has a laundry list of things that need to get done, but they're going to have to wait a bit). I do however have two consecutive days off from everything for the first time in 4 months so I am finally getting around to uploading pictures!

On the topic of pictures, all of my pictures are now practically thumbnail size because JNC's forum is forcing me to have a pixel width of less than 680. Is everyone else getting the constraint? I find it odd since my cell phone has a higher resolution than the requirement for picture sizes...

Here we go!

So in the process of pulling my gas tank out, I looked down the filler hole and saw all these screws sticking in!

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This was naturally alarming because I think we all know self tapping screws seal about as well as a screen door. So, after some more work I ripped that tank out of the trunk. The way the tank mounts is interesting though. It's half in the trunk and half under the trunk. How do they do that? Easy, punch a big hole in the trunk!

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Gas tank on the ground!

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This is the area on the outside where all the screws are. The tank has obviously been patched and coated before. As ghetto as it is, it appears to be pretty solid.

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The giant hole in the trunk gave me a pretty interesting view of the rear suspension as well.

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It also makes a nice place to stand...

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... or hide!

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Next came off some emblems.

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And a shift knob and some lights.

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Then the hood came off.

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Now that the hood was out of the way, that's right, the big one was next!

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Getting the chain ready.

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Exhaust disconnected.

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Pulling the weight off the car.

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We couldn't get to the trans. bolts, so we took off the trans. mount and clutch linkage...

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... and then we slid the engine and trans forward, took all the trans bolts off, then hoisted that beast out of there! It was so easy, took maybe an hour and a half (of which 20 to 30 minutes was spent on the clutch linkage!).

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The trans. on the ground.

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The flywheel looks like it has seen better days.

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The clutch disc, on the other hand, has huge amounts of meat left on it!

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All tucked away in the corner for a later date!

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And how the car sits now.

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So after some talk with my buddy and inspection of the engine, it's gotta get rebuilt. Isuzu parts are pricey and I'm pretty sure that whatever price I think it will cost, it will end up costing me double. So, we're pretty sure it'll be cheaper (read: way way more expensive and I'm just being naive) to just drop in an SR20 with twin webers and a 5 speed from a Silvia. Ya, crazy talk from the guy who did a full original restoration on a Mitsubishi 360, but you know what, I want to build this car for my fun! I'm thinking a slight drop, some nice stiff springs (a quick call to Eibach and I'm sure for more money than I'm willing to pay, they'll hook me up), some good shocks and good brake pads and this car will be a blast to drive with an SR20 in it! Goal of course would be to keep the look and feel as Isuzu as possible (which means factory exterior, factory interior, factory gauges, etc.).

That will all have to wait because I actually just spent all the money that I haven't yet earned for the next few months on something quite special! (Hint: It comes from the factory twincharged!) More on that and my crazy engine swap idea to come!

Thanks again everyone for the support!
Cheers
David

_________________
1967 LT23 Mitsubishi 360 // 1967 L10A Cosmo Sports // 1971 S30 Fairlady Z // 1973 PR95 Bellett 1800 GT // 1973 Honda Life // 1988 Z31 300 ZX SS // 1996 EK11 March 1.3 // 1997 AC15 Dream 50
My Homepage: http://sites.google.com/site/nakazoto/home


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Socal
sr swap? say it ain't so!

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:45 am 
Mild Cam
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1678
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
David hiding in the trunk made my whole day, hahaha.

I'm a bit disappointed to see the car won't be restored like the Minica, but I'm sure the quality of workmanship will be top-notch.

...and I think i know what you bought, you rascal.

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:21 am 
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I understand wanting something fun to drive. You just finished an original restore, time for fun :)

With that, are there no Isuzu motors that could make this fun? Or just too hard to find parts?

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:54 am
Posts: 428
Location: United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Twin Charged from the factory, eh?
I can only think of one Japanese car that fits that description and it will be a 1988/1989 year model.
Are we going to have to wait until it is 25 years old to find out?
Maybe I am completely wrong and there are alternative factory twin-charged vehicles out there?
Damn, I am curious.
I was even thinking of starting a "Guess Nakazoto´s new car" thread.
Whatever it is I hope you have time to post another build here on JNC forum. I have enjoyed following the other projects immensely.


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:06 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:54 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Thanks for the comments guys!

I'm not completely sold on the SR swap as the SR motors all appear to be front sump and that's just too much of a pain. Isuzu motors are impossibly difficult to find parts for because Isuzu cars have just about all but disappeared, so the now trunk only manufacturer carries very few car parts in stock, and even fewer car parts from the 70s. Everything has to be traded around second hand, but with engines, you need new parts. So, it would be much more exciting to have something bulletproof, twincam, easy to carb with abundant parts availability. The SR instantly popped into my mind, but I'm still mulling over other options.

Like I said though, it's all on hold because of the new toy! Camshaft got it completely right (he sent me a PM and hit the nail on the head) and I think you're on the right trail Toolz.

Here's a hint:

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And here's the answer:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15539

By the way, it's an utter blast to drive, I love it already, haha.

Thanks again guys and more progress coming soon hopefully!
Cheers
David

_________________
1967 LT23 Mitsubishi 360 // 1967 L10A Cosmo Sports // 1971 S30 Fairlady Z // 1973 PR95 Bellett 1800 GT // 1973 Honda Life // 1988 Z31 300 ZX SS // 1996 EK11 March 1.3 // 1997 AC15 Dream 50
My Homepage: http://sites.google.com/site/nakazoto/home


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:02 am 
Mild Cam
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I know this is a total "duh" comment, but have you checked with sme of our Australian members for parts? It seems a lot of Isuzu action from this forum hails from Down Under.

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:39 am
Posts: 310
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Ugh, SR20! I think i just threw up :? [before anyone calls me a nissan-hater, i owned an S15 ADM for 2yrs - 6spd turbo].

Quote:

I understand wanting something fun to drive. You just finished an original restore, time for fun

With that, are there no Isuzu motors that could make this fun? Or just too hard to find parts?



There are a plethora of engines that are bolt in/near bolt in. Nakazato, search the australia bellet club....theres a rundown on pretty much every isuzu engine into bellet. Most are ridiculously easy with only minor mount mods.


First piece of advice, ditch the old OHC pushrod G series engine. Rubbish boat anchor of an engine, dont waste your time building it.


G series SOHC engines are a relatively easy fit, benifit is you get 5spd gearbox options [heaps of box's down here mate], alloy x-flow head, parts are SHIT cheap in Oz. To give you an idea, im rebuilding my turbo G161z [the z denotes the SOHC/xflow head] and just for arguements sake [to show price comparisions] i paid $80 for *brand new* Heavy duty valve springs, $45 delivered for a brand new rollmaster timing chain, pistons and rings were 100 brand new and a complete engine seal kit is $40. Hardly bank-breaking, considering a rocker cover gasket for my S15 [yes, a f*cking 4yr old car needed a rocker cover gasket amongst many other seals - all this at only 90,000km] cost me $60. $60! For a piece of cork!?!

In terms of power -

G161z SOHC, depending on year model power output ranges anywhere from 70hp to 85hp
G180z SOHC, add another 5hp
G200z SOHC [plentiful in the states im told]

I turbo'd my tired stocker and it made 160rwkw. Thats 215REAR WHEEL hp, on an engine that was on its last legs, with no internal mods, on a dyno known to read low. Compare that with my S15 which was mechanically spotless, that on the same dyno with your usual mods [cooler, more boost, $$$$$ exhaust and intake] made 175rwkw. Yay, 30yrs of technology advances, DOHC 16V head and it made only 15rwkw more! GAY!

Then youve got the later 4Z series engines - Piazza turbo [110kw/150hp], the Rodeo 4ZD1/E1 twins etc - these are availible in the states, the later two relatively easy [troopers/p'ups/luvs used these]. More headf*cking to fit in a bellet, but they fit. Without cutting half the car up or cutting 10yrs off your life.

Beauty of the 4Z/G---z engines is the following - EXHAUST, INLET MANIFOLD, GEARBOX and other critical components are interchangeable. As in, bolt off, bolt on interchange. Not ohh ive got a FWD 4AGE in my sprinter lemme just get my tig welder out and pretty much re-make the standard stuff to fit bolt on-off. Proper bolt off-on.



Then, youve got the "holy grail". The G180w/G200w.

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These might be expensive in J-land because they are sort after. For good reason.

Just under 140 flywheel hp out of the G180w in standard form. IN THE MID 70's!!!!!!!

You want the version with the forward facing plenum and the oil filter housing in the middle of the engine pointing up. Its out of an Isuzu 117 and itll bolt straight into the bellet.

My old one was out of a ZZ/R gemini, i had crap extractors, the shitty standard plenum with a 65mm throttle body, and an ancient haltech with someone that knows what their doing tuning it. End result was 112rwhp on the same dyno as above. Enough in a 900kg gemini to see me embarass an S2000. Repeatedly.

Alot of bespoke parts in this engine, but in typical isuzu fashion there is still parts sharing - ie, gearbox is the same except for the bellhousing which conveniently unbolts, same bottom end bearings as the G180/200 SOHC [under $100 brand new with thrust washers], same crank/rods as the G180/200 SOHC, same flywheel/clutch...

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[F3ARED] 76 Isuzu Gemini Coupe - forged G180z, EFI, 525hp Turbo, 6years and still building...

Daily 78 Isuzu Gemini Sedan, stock G161z, Rodeo EFI, 500hp roller, 157rwkw. Fun :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:19 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:15 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Agree with F3ared, try to find 4Z-series engine for your Bellett.

F3ared wrote:

Beauty of the 4Z/G---z engines is the following - EXHAUST, INLET MANIFOLD, GEARBOX and other critical components are interchangeable.



F3ared, I'm planning to use 4WD MSG5 Gearbox for G151, is it possible?


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:15 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 107
Location: australia
nick he already has a 1800 ohc motor,just not a g180z like we use.
if i recall these motor may have been used in early luv's so the us guys may be able to help with gaskets and so on,as feared has said the g180w(twin cam) shares bearings with the cross flow g180 that come out in gemini's and rodeo's and your motor shares the bottom end as the twin cam so we maybe able to help with these parts,i'm not sure if our rings are the same though.
it would be a shame for such a nice car to be taken to far from standard.


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:51 am 
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Either way. I want to see this one getting attention. Which ever motor makes the most sense for you will still be great in the car with all the other details sorted,

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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:54 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Haha, thanks everyone for the suggestions!
I didn't think there would be so much backlash against the SR20, haha. The motor I got there is the SOHC engine, rated at 115 ps out of the box (only 5 ps less than what the twin cam 1600 GTR engine was rated at). Speaking of Isuzu engines, to find a nice twin cam Isuzu engine out of either a Bellett, Gemini or 117 I'm looking at at least double what I paid for the car... That was one of the first things I looked into, but just couldn't justify it. I also have to consider that if I put any engine in there other than the factory engine I'm looking at about 300,000 yen to get the Shaken switched over. Engine swaps are frowned upon in Japan.

So, that brought me up to the SR20. Goal was to have parts availability and indestructibility for peanuts. I want an engine I can hammer on all day long and never have to worry about. What actually attracted me to the SR20 first was Dave Coleman and his 510 Rally Beater. He beat that thing to hell and back (he also wrecked it like 12 times or something) and everything failed on that car except the engine.

Anyways, turns out most of the Nissan engines are front sump, putting them squarely in the "too much effort" category, haha. I'm lazy and cheap, I want it to drop in with few mods, cost me next to nothing and be invincible. Big power isn't my concern here, a solid 130 ps to the wheels will be plenty for me, means I'm only asking for like 150ish ps at the flywheel, I know that's plenty doable on a ton of engines.

Which brings me to my current train of thought. The Mazda Roadster BP engine. Now before the flames start lapping at my feet, let me at least get my defense out, haha. Rear sump, 1.8 liter, 130+ ps, twin cam and tough as nails. People have been racing the Miata for years so the motor is tough and parts availability is insane. The motor is a little low on power, but my buddy back in the states has a supercharger on his and that thing didn't even bat an eye to the massive increase in power, so the stock engine and transmission can take a hammering (which is far more important than high power to me). And it's cheap as all get out. I can get a full engine, harness and transmissions on Yahoo Auction for less than a 100,000 yen (sometimes as cheap as 50,000 yen)! So far, that seems to meet all my requirements. Hell I can get a whole car for less than what it would cost me to find a worn out Isuzu twin cam engine.

I'm currently torn between two courses of thought. Do I make it the ultimate drivers car or do I restore it to its former glory? I know it's a decision that ultimately I have to make because opinions on what I should do will always be split, haha. Ask my dad and he'll say restore to original, ask my buddy and he'll say "Yee haw, drop a 350 V8 in that there sucker." Well... he's a bit of a redneck, but I digress. At any rate, I'm sure I'll change my mind 15 times in the next week and about 150 times before it becomes time to pull the trigger on any engine related stuff.

Of course, this is all just fun and speculation right now, the body has to get fixed first, which means I need a day off more frequently than once a month. Also, I could use some more of that money thing because, as anyone with a boosted car knows, you multiply the amount of boost you're running by 10,000 (130 if you're doing USD) and that's and that's how much yen (USD) you will have to feed the engine to keep it happy, haha.
(For me, 14 psi x 10,000 = 140,000 yen, which I happen to think is pretty reasonable, hehe).

Anyways, thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions!
Cheers
David

_________________
1967 LT23 Mitsubishi 360 // 1967 L10A Cosmo Sports // 1971 S30 Fairlady Z // 1973 PR95 Bellett 1800 GT // 1973 Honda Life // 1988 Z31 300 ZX SS // 1996 EK11 March 1.3 // 1997 AC15 Dream 50
My Homepage: http://sites.google.com/site/nakazoto/home


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:39 am
Posts: 310
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
nick he already has a 1800 ohc motor,just not a g180z like we use.
if i recall these motor may have been used in early luv's so the us guys may be able to help with gaskets and so on,as feared has said the g180w(twin cam) shares bearings with the cross flow g180 that come out in gemini's and rodeo's and your motor shares the bottom end as the twin cam so we maybe able to help with these parts,i'm not sure if our rings are the same though.
it would be a shame for such a nice car to be taken to far from standard.


Yeah i know paul, but regardless, its still crap compared to the G---Z, G---W and 4Z and so on :lol:

Quote:
F3ared, I'm planning to use 4WD MSG5 Gearbox for G151, is it possible?


I assume you mean the 5spd gearbox out of the Rodeo/P'up/Jackaroo/Trooper? Not too clued up on the 4WD gearbox's but from memory the transfer case is seperate from the gearbox which is good. The 151 being pushrod has a different bellhousing to the SOHC/4Z engines - starter motor is on the passenger side like the DOHC engines. IF the bellhousing is identical to the DOHC item, then yes - you can use the MSG5 but you will have to bolt the front half of the 151 bellhousing to it. Dont take my word as gospel however - my experience is with the Z and DOHC engines, however im 99% certain the above is correct in regards to the 151.

Nakazato, my experience with the SR20 is far from glowing. Admitedly I am a "tuner" [ie i cant leave anything standard] however ive seen PLENTY of them fail, parrticularly once the power figures exceed 250rwhp. Things like crank taking a walk etc. The naturally aspirated SR's arent a particularly good motor either, seeing as they suffer from the same problem that plagues all sr's [shocking valvetrain] so continual big revs will see issues. That, and the power isnt too crash hot [same as a G200W!].

Again, from experience any engine swap that is not a bolt-in [or remotely near it] take your cost and multiple it by 5. Things always get out of hand, regardless of how much of a good idea on paper it seems, there are always hurdles that cant be foreseen. the 300,000 shakotan fee will seem irrelevant in comparision what gets spent on getting it in there.

130ps @ the rear wheels will take mods out of any naturally aspirated engine, doesnt matter if its the BP or SR. Like i mentioned earlier, my DOHC was up at 112rwhp with minimal mods [from memory, the conversion hp to ps was almost identical give or take a few]. I was confident that with a decent set of 4-1 extractors and quad throttles, i wouldve seen 140rwhp if not more. Not saying this because its an Isuzu [it would make me seem biased] but its a crapload torquier then a 4AGE [friend had one in his KE70, the 100kw 16v version] and absolutely SCREAM their way to 7000rpm.

The little BP is a sweet engine [like most mazdas], however its not the most powerful/torquey and it still has the same problem as the SR - $$$ to get in there. Dont be fooled by cheap initial purchase prices, like i said earlier - things add up.

Im not usually a purist [i can see the sence in an SR-into-510 swap very clearly], however i guess its the fact that, knowing these engines like the back of my hand, and knowing how good they are and how easy they are to wake up, i get fiercly defensive at the thought of putting something that doesnt belong in there.

_________________
[F3ARED] 76 Isuzu Gemini Coupe - forged G180z, EFI, 525hp Turbo, 6years and still building...

Daily 78 Isuzu Gemini Sedan, stock G161z, Rodeo EFI, 500hp roller, 157rwkw. Fun :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:53 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:24 am
Posts: 103
Location: Lobethal, South Australia
id like to see the engine brand stay in the isuzu family.
however have you considered a rotary engine? its smallish and reasonably easy to make mounts for with good power. I dont know about availability over there though. Its an option i have considered for my bellett but i am now rebuilding a 1600 florian motor for mine.


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 Post subject: Re: The Bellet of the ball!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 148
Location: Great White North
Dave,

If licensing is such trouble (read: expense) with the wrong motor in it, then paint it and license it with the original motor.

Following this, if you still want a swap, then go for it.
It is dead easy to pull the motor out, so you haven't much to lose there...
Plus, you might be happy with how it drives.

Doing it this way saves you at least 300000 yen in licensing fees, and is good for 2 years.

For that matter, swap the original motor back in every 2 years for Shaken (bi-annual inspection).

If you do the motor, I would strongly suggest doing at least a 2.0 liter.
In my Corolla I did way back when I swapped from a 1.8 L (7A-FE) to the 2.0 L (3S-GE) and it made such a difference.
I was well over 130 hp at the wheels with no engine mods.


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