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 Post subject: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:49 pm
Posts: 505
Location: snohomish, washington
I been starting to realize that the new age of car enthusiast is destroyed our way of life. Instead of building a car that makes them happy, they are building the same cars that they see in mags or off the internet. Look at what's happening with the american car scene, all the cars are the same. all the engine swaps, brake and wheel setups are the same. I hope that I never see the japanese car scene go the same way, but sadly it has already started. So I say lets stop this trend, teach the kids what it means to modifying japanese cars.

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86 AE86- need fenders, lights, rear bumper, Hood, seats, interior knobs.


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:11 pm
Posts: 144
Location: croatia
This is sad and very true :? Everyone is copy other guys work cause they dont have imagination ideas or something else.


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:57 am
Posts: 535
Location: Strasburg, VA
most of the people copying others will only do so for a little while, then sell everything they have and "grow up". they are basically just riding the fads.. these are the people who bought all the new phones, newest clothes etc in high school. they will all move on in life. for the TRUE car enthusiasts, this is there life.. that's why it doesn't bother me. i don't care what people really think about my projects. those who hate them will be gone soon anyways.. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:28 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 242
Location: Albuquerque NM
I can't say much... in a sense, i'm copying 'oracles' :lol: at least until i can get my hands on a 2urgse. :twisted:

I do understand though. I explained this to my wife a while back... didn't really do any good, but I was able to vent. :?

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The 'Mistress' http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11540&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:31 am
Posts: 199
Location: Somewhere in the desert, NM
Well, I can see both sides to this. Some do it simply because they don't have the knowledge, imagination or fortitude to do something different. Granted, some of them never will. But some use the knowledge they learn by doing that to expand beyond just following and create their own car. Some of it is also due to very focused aftermarket support in the US, only for certain vehicles, etc. Whereas in Japan, if they make it, you're almost guaranteed there's aftermarket parts for it.
It's a debate that been around for a long time, much like who's a "proper" enthusiast, one who does the work to their car or has someone else do it?

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:47 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Orange County
... There's such a thing as being TOO creative or TOO original, often such mods and ideas can be I'll conceived, and such efforts become the material of ridicule on forums such as this. :lol: Few people have the charge of creative genesis.

Though admittedly enough of my interest in these cars lies in keeping cars stock, which avoids certain tropes; I appreciate the history of these cars as they were new, as much as I enjoy seeing modified cars.

Partly, the "hidden history" of jdm has given me a break from a long-standing tiredness of the repetitions in other car scenes; I learn something new about jncs every day, where much of the knowledge-base and ideas found in other automotive genres are fixed, more or less, in my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:45 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Warren, MI
People do what they want. Some don't want much.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 172
Location: UK
I reckon e-at_me has it about right. When I was a kid there were car people and not-car people. A raspy exhaust or occasionally a U.S. V8 was enough to make you turn and look because you knew there was something special passing by.

It's almost the law these days that if you're young your car must have alloys, a stoopid 'zaust and some bits nailed on, much as you must where certain clothes, have the right hair, phone, music, etc. It doesn't matter if they've never picked up a spanner or dont understand what the extra grip from those massive tyres is doing to their stock suspension, it's just what's "in".
Car enthusiasts are just as busy as they've always been, but counting "fad riders" as car enthusiasts is like saying everyone who cooks food is a gourmet chef.
Or something...


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Worst Covina
DmK66 wrote:
It's almost the law these days that if you're young your car must have alloys, a stoopid 'zaust and some bits nailed on, much as you must where certain clothes, have the right hair, phone, music, etc.


Well put. Hellaflush is a good example.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:38 am
Posts: 244
Location: nyc
in some cases, copying isnt bad. lets face it, if someone builds a bad ass car, it should be ok to copy most of it. i rather someone copy a bad ass car then copy a ass bad car .


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:14 am 
Mild Cam
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1675
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I have a Tumblr (see sig). For those unfamiliar with Tumblr, it's a bizarre mix of equal parts blog, Facebook, and Twitter. As a result, other users can "like" your posts, or even "reblog" them. I've noticed a strange trend with my posts - most of the "likes" and "reblogs" are from fashion & lifestyle blogs that appreciate the aesthetic of an older vehicle, without being car-focused or even maintained/read by car people. I'll check up on a blog that reblogged, say, an old Datsun advert or a picture of my Cutlass, and the post will be nestled neatly between a model wearing this summer's '70s-inspired wardrobe, and a picture of a Sears 8-track player (or a hipster wearing wayfarers, or a Lasonic boombox). Even if our cars are viewed merely as "fashion accesories," I'm all for anything that brings interest, respect, and conservation to our hobby. The car enthusiast is dead, long live the car enthusiast.

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1980 Datsun 510
1980 Toyota Celica
1984 Porsche 911
1988 Mazda RX7
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Last edited by Camshaft on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 172
Location: UK
camshaft, I'm with you 100 %. I have fond memories of the 70's and a few of the 60's !
I have some "Town" magazines from 60's London, the ads for cars, clothes, cigarettes, airlines, hotels etc are brilliant and though I dont play guitar, those ads are cool too.
The "olden days" (as my son puts it) were stylish and anyone who likes that era will like a car (or related media) from the past.
I'm not trying to be contentious (learnt my lesson in the last punch-up on here) but
I think the point here is about how cars have become part of day to day trendy culture (cr*p, I'm sounding all of my 45 years). There are still many young people who are "car enthusiasts", the vw, rodding, lowriding, Japanese, fast-road and all the other scenes have been going for 100's of years (yeah, I know) but there's still teenage "enthusiasts" building these cars. It's the "style" cars that are the issue, the owners have no more interest in or input into the detail, origin or construction of their cars than they do for their phones, clothes, etc.
Or maybe I'm just old....


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:31 pm 
Mild Cam
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1675
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I don't think being style-conscious is a bad thing, either. I mean, how many of us are obsessed with "period-correct" rims or parts? How is that any different from having the right tape in the deck, the right sunglasses on the dash, or the right shoes pushing the pedals? 8)

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1980 Datsun 510
1980 Toyota Celica
1984 Porsche 911
1988 Mazda RX7
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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 6:00 am
Posts: 50
Location: Eva, Alabama
I must agree with about everything I've read here. I've only had my JNC for a short period, but I've been wrenching for years on newer things. I've got many projects that newer so called "car guys" don't understand. For instance, most people who like my Evo, can't understand why I'd want my 49 International Pickup (it was my grandfathers). Or they mock me for what I "wont" do to it (chop it, bag it, etc.)

I'll be the first to say that I prefer to do what other's wouldn't. Sure I could throw EFI and a 4g63t in the Colt, but that's what 90% of the people I know would do, and the parts are easily attainable so IMO that makes it too easy. I'd rather find the "needle in a haystack" parts and do it my way.

I don't think any of us can truly be original when it comes to the car scene. Someone, somewhere, has done it. Maybe not exactly like you, or on your type car, but it has been done... Anyone remember when "Body Dropping" hit the MiniTruckin scene? (yeah I'm an ex Mini Trucker) People thought it was some new amazing thing... when street rodders had been "channeling" bodies over the frame rails for years. People were modifying cars way before we were, and they will be doing so long after we are gone.

I for one will always build what I want, to hell with what the "Trend" is!

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:47 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Orange County
...Yeah. I've actually received a TON of flack in the past for not swapping my engine for an RB/SBC/Weber/Megasquirt, lowering my car into the weeds, installing a new stereo, depending on what the devotee in question is pleased by most; I've been told to my face (angrilly) that I'm "wasting" the 280z by leaving it stock, and not so much as replacing the bumpers :roll: It works for me, perfectly, and if I could wish anything on it, it would only that it be more of a 280z.

Most recently, the above occured today, at Del Taco.

I own British, American, and Japanese classic cars; since I've found that I get so much guff over being a traitor to one car or the other, one style or trend or the other etc., I've found it easiest to not participate in any car related conversations with anyone I don't know; I tend to just get berated in some fashion by someone who knows far less about any of my cars than I do, get looked at like I'm insane, and the conversation ends in an ugly way.

IMO too many people approach car fandom like it's a sport, whereas I guess I approach it like... A geek :lol:

(...Though for some reason it's still fun, while a bit sad, to see the reaction of any admirer of my 55 Chevy when I tell them that I actually prefer Japanese cars ;) It's like being the Democrat at the NRA meeting)

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 172
Location: UK
Dachshund, that all sounds like jealousy or redirected rage ! (Not yours, theirs)
It's strange how things vary round the world. I was aware of the Ford /Holden thing in Australia but totally unaware that it goes on in America too.
In my experience over this side of the pond there is barely any overt hatred or opinion-offering about other peoples automotive choices. I've had VW, Alfa, Opel, Chevy, various Japanese and of course many British classics over the years but nobody has ever said to my face "Mate, your car is s**t ".
They either enthuse or ignore.
I've seen a few veiled threats in the form of vinyls on the back of cars but that's about it !
Maybe it's British reserve. Or repression....

Mind you, one bloke came up to me in my '68 Rover 3500 P6, lulled me into a false sense of talking to a car enthusiast and then told me that my car used too much fuel and looked outdated.
Didn't see what he was driving,I think he may have been un-hinged....


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:54 pm
Posts: 462
Location: Nagoya, Japan
I agree with quite a lot of what has been said!
My 2 cents (yen?) just further emphasizes this point, haha. My whole life up to my Mitsubishi I owned nothing but sports cars (87 Z31, 88 Z31 Turbo, 86 FC3S, 90 F31 w/ 5 speed swap, 71 S30 Z, 86 AE86). So naturally I accumulated quite a lot of car oriented friends. Then I go buy a 67 Mitsubishi 360 that's been sitting in a field for 10 years. Me, I've never been so excited to own and work on a car, but the response from my friends was interesting. The true car enthusiasts would say things like "2-stroke, man that's awesome! I had an old 2-stroke bike, here's some tuning tips." Other enthusiasts would say things like "21 hp, that's so lame, why are you wasting your money on that thing." They completely missed the point of the car.

So I think that within the actual enthusiast side there are two levels. There are those that see cars as a tool to do something fun. I like to think the best example of this is the drifter crowd. They will slam a car into a wall and keep on going. They think things like bent sheet metal is something to be worn with pride and when the car no longer drifts well or they get bored of it, they throw it away. Which is fine, more power to them, but it's not for me.

I, and others like me (if there are others as crazy as I am, haha), see the car for it's character. A car is so much more than just a collection of parts. It has a personality, it has good days, bad days, it talks to me, and most importantly, it has a history. I don't know, I guess I see it like this, if there is a human heart in a freezer (or whatever they keep them in) awaiting a transplant, it's just a part. The second they put it into a human and it starts beating and gives the human life it's not just a part anymore but it's part of something whole, something special, something with emotions and feelings, it's human. How is an engine any different? Once apart it's just a collection of parts. Once together bringing life and movement to a vehicle it's part of something more, something bigger and special. It has certain characteristics in its power delivery that are only felt with this specific vehicle. Two vehicles that are the same model, year, grade, everything are like twins. Identical to someone else, but to the mother they're inexplicably different. So my 1967 Mitsubishi 360 will never feel like any other Mitsubishi 360 in the world. The same for my Bellett. And the history between my 88 Z31 and me is so long it could never be replaced by another Z31 turbo.

Some say cars are just glass, metal and plastic, but they're just so much more. There's a whole new depth to cars that I discover with every passing day and I'm always looking forward to what new things I'll learn tomorrow!

Alright, that was my 2 yen (cents?). I just re-read it and it has no real logical order, more like verbal diarrhea, haha.
Anyways, I'll step down off my soap box now.
Cheers
David

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1967 LT23 Mitsubishi 360 // 1967 L10A Cosmo Sports // 1971 S30 Fairlady Z // 1973 PR95 Bellett 1800 GT // 1973 Honda Life // 1988 Z31 300 ZX SS // 1990 BNR32 Skyline GTR // 1996 EK11 March 1.3
My Homepage: http://sites.google.com/site/nakazoto/home


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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 172
Location: UK
There we go, for anyone who wanted a definition, Nakazoto = Enthusiast.
I happened to read his 360 thread the other night, it's a cool car and I'd happily drive it around. Not sure how happy those behind me would be...
As for being "verbal diarrhea", you must be awesome on a good day !
As you've said there's some cars that just get you, often way beyond any logical reason.
My constant car for the past 14 years has been an '88 LN65 Hi-lux. It's done 300 K miles & looks it !
It's probably only worth a few hundred pounds but I'd never get rid of it.
It still looks great if I walk outside and the sun's setting across it's rusty and mismatched panels, flaky paint and battle scars.
Or am I just being silly ?

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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:03 am 
Mild Cam
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:31 pm
Posts: 1675
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I caught a lot of crap when I joined RX7Club because I "wasn't focused" and I "didn't really know what I wanted." This is because I was interested in more than one kind of car, which is tough for a lot of RX7 guys to comprehend. We can barely tie our shoes most days.

Do what makes you happy, drive what you want, and build it (or leave it standard) however you see fit. But don't be so steadfast in your ways that you won't take suggestions from well-meaning friends...sometimes they have really good ideas! :wink: Collaborate and learn, but a the end of the day, do it your way.

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1980 Datsun 510
1980 Toyota Celica
1984 Porsche 911
1988 Mazda RX7
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 Post subject: Re: Death of the car enthusiast
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:40 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 605
Location: San Diego, California
copy or not copy - Me, personally, I am going for restoration and resurrection. I can admire more a good resto and hard work more than anything else.

Am I copying other people??...perhaps, but how many ways can you do a resto if your goal is to get it back to factory spec??

It's all in your point of view as compared to what is the crowd doing or what's trendy in the magazines.


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