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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Yup I'd say that's a fair call.

The L-series in the Hako will never be a good candidate for turbo. While the beautiful cylinder head would flow lots of power, it and the HKS flat tops mean that it's got very small combustion chambers for a 11:1 compression ratio. Playing around with a turbo conversion does sound like fun. If only we could find an old HKS Surge Tank kit for triple carbs...but I'd start with a fresh stock L-series, and I'd probably put it in a Cedric or something instead of the Hako :)

And Samoht is right about the S20 too. Personally, the best part of owning an S20 engine, IMHO is having the 2000GT-R gift-wrapping that it comes in :D The L that's in the Hako right now is perfect for it, it's simple to maintain myself and it would be very expensive (if not impossible) to get an S20 up to its power level anyway.

But of course if OS Giken were to agree to sponsor me, I could have my arm twisted to have a TC-24 engine in my car :lol: So in order of preference, in terms of driving character and personality, I reckon the best engines for my Hako are:

- TC24 L-series
- LY-headed L-series
- Regular L-series
- S20

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:29 am 
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kev wrote:
And Samoht is right about the S20 too. Personally, the best part of owning an S20 engine, IMHO is having the 2000GT-R gift-wrapping that it comes in :D


.....or the Fairlady Z432 / 432-R "gift wrapping".

Kev,
What's your personal experience of S20 engines? Ever driven a car powered by one? If so, was it stock, or very close to stock?

These ( internet ) days there seems to be a lot of nonsense talked about the S20. One crowd seems to think it's a mythical fire-breathing monster, although their main point of reference seems to be from videos of the 'R Factory' race car, and the other talks smack about it - saying that an L-gata is 'superior', even though they are usually thinking of a 3 litre that's had quite a lot of tuning effort put into it and which uses parts that didn't exist until ten years after the S20 was put on sale....


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:24 am 

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GT-R380 wrote:
Just say NO to turbos :P
NA all the way :tu: :D


And say yes to tail lights... lol...

-Robert

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:02 am 
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HS30-H wrote:
kev wrote:
And Samoht is right about the S20 too. Personally, the best part of owning an S20 engine, IMHO is having the 2000GT-R gift-wrapping that it comes in :D


.....or the Fairlady Z432 / 432-R "gift wrapping".

Kev,
What's your personal experience of S20 engines? Ever driven a car powered by one? If so, was it stock, or very close to stock?

These ( internet ) days there seems to be a lot of nonsense talked about the S20. One crowd seems to think it's a mythical fire-breathing monster, although their main point of reference seems to be from videos of the 'R Factory' race car, and the other talks smack about it - saying that an L-gata is 'superior', even though they are usually thinking of a 3 litre that's had quite a lot of tuning effort put into it and which uses parts that didn't exist until ten years after the S20 was put on sale....


No, haven't had the privilege of having driven an s20 car (unless you are offering... :)).

But you're right, when you are talking about S20 vs L-series, you really aren't comparing like with like. There is no way that an S20 can make the power of a 50% bigger and highly tuned L-series. On the other hand, a 2000cc L-series can't possibly match an S20 in any equivalent state of tune. And that is before you bring in subjective things like, which engine has the nicer character and of course the L-series has had more development through greater strength of numbers, and across a much longer production life.

It's an impossible comparison...I think the fairest thing to say is that I would not want to swap my 300hp L series for an S20 motor, but on the other hand if I had a real 2000GT-R, I wouldn't be in any hurry to swap the S20 for an L-series either :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:41 pm 
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You know, if I had a Hako with a L20A in it, I think Id gave some fun to see what I could get out of it. Would it have a ton of low end, no, but perhaps it might have enough mid and upper to be really fun. Would it be easier to drop a 3L in, heck yeah, but where is the fun in that (aside from the obvoius 3 liters)

A turbo L series would be cool because they are kinda rare around here, a hot NA motor is also cool. An S20 while super cool is so rare that I don't know that I would want to go messing with it. Sure it could be fun, but if you screw it up while tweaking it out, you can't just run out and get another.

Will

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:23 am 
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kev wrote:
No, haven't had the privilege of having driven an s20 car (unless you are offering... :)).


Yeah, you can have a drive anytime. You have to pay your own air fare though....

Give it a few months and you can ( hopefully ) have a spin in an S30 body with an S20 engine too. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 7:41 am 
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HS30-H wrote:
kev wrote:
No, haven't had the privilege of having driven an s20 car (unless you are offering... :)).


Yeah, you can have a drive anytime. You have to pay your own air fare though....

Give it a few months and you can ( hopefully ) have a spin in an S30 body with an S20 engine too. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

:)

taking alan's s20 equipped racecar for a spin around the paddock was a highlight (the highlight?) of my england trip, so you need to take him up on his offer!

and yes there's nothing quite like the sound/feel of an s20
we (ed & I) were greatly tempted to burst out of the the paddock and into the track :mrgreen:

btw, short vid from the event
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w-GnP6gzYE

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:33 am 
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matt wrote:

taking alan's s20 equipped racecar for a spin around the paddock was a highlight (the highlight?) of my england trip, so you need to take him up on his offer!



Lucky!! :)

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Rad2Ltr wrote:
You know, if I had a Hako with a L20A in it, I think Id gave some fun to see what I could get out of it.

Me too. My car wouldn't be a very representative example of a hot street car in early 70s Japan. I would have thought that an L20 with a triple carb kit and some other bolt on goodies, in a narrowbody unflared coupe rolling on Enkei slots or Cromodora mags would be much more of that era.

That would be a fun project, it wouldn't be too fast, but it would be fun to get it as period correct as we could (but I'd imagine that things like the vintage Mach steering wheel and other period accessories would require a second mortgage). I'd imagine that back in the day, most cars on the road in Japan would have been 1000cc or less, so a two litre six in a compact bodyshell would have seemed like a big blocked muscle car in comparison :)

HS30-H wrote:
Yeah, you can have a drive anytime. You have to pay your own air fare though....

Hmmm...if only I'd perfected the design of that teleportation device. Alas...

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:36 am 

Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 4:47 pm
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Location: Queensland Australia
kev wrote:
GT-R380 wrote:
dchil15 wrote:
snip
build l31 stroker twin turbo for hako
snip
just an idea
dchil15


NOooo! A turbo on a Hako is sacrilegious! Just say NO to turbos :P
NA all the way :tu: :D

No, you see, part of the complicated ponzi scheme is that the twin-turbo L31 is only installed in the Hako temporarily until we can find a Zed to put it in...well I think that's the plan anyway.

yep thats the plan :D
but a 432 replica would be cool :twisted:
any way i terms of how much i want one:
1 s20 engined hako
2 your hako
3 devil z replica
but the 3rd would be the easiest to get.

altho, on the devil z, i dont see where every one gets the twin cam part of the devil z
in the cartoon version there is just a single cam l series head.

Intresting how an idea can hijack a thread, hey
Any updates kev?
dchil15
edited of clarity

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:15 pm 
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kev wrote:
Rad2Ltr wrote:
You know, if I had a Hako with a L20A in it, I think Id gave some fun to see what I could get out of it.

Me too. My car wouldn't be a very representative example of a hot street car in early 70s Japan. I would have thought that an L20 with a triple carb kit and some other bolt on goodies, in a narrowbody unflared coupe rolling on Enkei slots or Cromodora mags would be much more of that era.

That would be a fun project, it wouldn't be too fast, but it would be fun to get it as period correct as we could (but I'd imagine that things like the vintage Mach steering wheel and other period accessories would require a second mortgage). I'd imagine that back in the day, most cars on the road in Japan would have been 1000cc or less, so a two litre six in a compact bodyshell would have seemed like a big blocked muscle car in comparison :)

HS30-H wrote:
Yeah, you can have a drive anytime. You have to pay your own air fare though....

Hmmm...if only I'd perfected the design of that teleportation device. Alas...


An L20A at 11:1 compression, with a well done head, big cam, and triple Mikunis might be surprisingly fast. And think of the sound it would make. :D 8) I'd bet it could produce at least 200 hp. It would certainly hold its own on a track, and on the street would surprise a few people as well. I don't know that an S20 would be any more fun. Is it 3.1 Liters and 250 hp, no, but it would still move right along.

Will

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:54 pm 
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[/quote] Hmmm...if only I'd perfected the design of that teleportation device. Alas...[/quote]

I have the tractor hydraulics and a 12volt amplifier that you were after to get that project started again.
Oh, and a generator from an EK Holden (1962).........Just thought it might help.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:44 pm 
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31GUN wrote:
I have the tractor hydraulics and a 12volt amplifier that you were after to get that project started again.
Oh, and a generator from an EK Holden (1962).........Just thought it might help.

Those will help. Now all we need is a Delorean.

No hang on, that's for a different project...

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 9:05 am 

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for this project you'll need a skyline.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:54 pm 
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kev wrote:
But of course if OS Giken were to agree to sponsor me, I could have my arm twisted to have a TC-24 engine in my car :lol: So in order of preference, in terms of driving character and personality, I reckon the best engines for my Hako are:

- TC24 L-series
- LY-headed L-series
- Regular L-series
- S20

First of all, apologies to interrupt thread.
Until maybe 6 months ago I had never even heard about O.S. Giken but now I am fascinated by their lack of capitalist policy.
For those that don´t know -
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
and...
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
..and..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LC_4J1MmRU

This truly is the "Holy Grail" in Datsun circles. So how come none of us can get an answer?
Did they make only nine or twenty?
Why don´t they put it in to production now? (Fortunes to be made)
Are they going to do another limited re-run?
Can somebody "in the know" start an OS Giken thread and inform the plebs?
Kev, you have been pretty lucky with sponsorship this far.
Lets make it happen.
(I accept no responsibility for this post as I have been "on the sauce" since getting smoked by a Nissan Patrol today).


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 7:13 pm 
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ToolZ wrote:
This truly is the "Holy Grail" in Datsun circles. So how come none of us can get an answer?
Did they make only nine or twenty?
Why don´t they put it in to production now? (Fortunes to be made)
Are they going to do another limited re-run?
Can somebody "in the know" start an OS Giken thread and inform the plebs?
Kev, you have been pretty lucky with sponsorship this far.
Lets make it happen.
(I accept no responsibility for this post as I have been "on the sauce" since getting smoked by a Nissan Patrol today).


Ok, I'll put up what I know about it, which might not be that much :) The TC24 head began development in the late 70s, and became available around 1980 I think. It did look like it had some features in common with the LY head and the S20 head, and was really, really expensive. Y1.2mil I think, which is like US$12,000 today, so imagine how expensive that was in real terms in the early 80s.

The number they made was very small, something along the lines of a dozen, but they were only intended to be a short-run. The moulds for the castings were mostly made of carved wood, and so you would only get a few goes out of the moulds before they were ruined, and OS Giken were never in a position to churn out lots and lots of them, they were made with low-production techniques and presumbly needed plenty of hand finishing afterwards, which all adds to the significant cost.

Why can't they start re-making them? Well over the years, plenty of interested parties have offered money to OS Giken for new TC24 heads, and OS-G have always said that the cost would be prohibitive, since thet would be more or less starting from scratch. The old moulds were unusable, so it's not like OS-G could just flick a switch and new TC24s would start rolling out of a machine and down a conveyor belt (if only) :)

More recently, it seems that OS-G has put out the word that they'd entertain offers for more TC24s, and I've heard rumours of a US$30,000 per head cost, but I can't confirm if that was originally from the horse's mouth. Last year, I was shown photos of TC24 castings sitting on a bench, which were supposedly a recent picture. In the pic, you can see 5 raw TC24 head castings. I dunno if they ever made it into completed heads and were sold into the Japanese market. And I certainly don't know if OS-G is in any position to crank out some more, but given the displayed TC24 head at SEMA last year, I would think that they probably are. Given the depressed state of the aftermarket industry in Japan right now, it would certainly help, but you would understand that OS-G would want to rack up a certain number of confirmed and prepaid orders first.

As for a sponsorship, if anyone from OS Giken is reading this, I can be reached via PM :lol: but given the likely exotic pricetag, I would reckon that any new TC24s would just be for realy big-dollar builds, and OS Giken would just be wanting to shift a handful more, not a heap more.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 12:42 am 
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Thanks for information.
It does seem to be unobtainium then.....
Still, there is always the "mad genius" route -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDCfZUIM ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:20 am 

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Giken has decided to make the a short batch of these heads again. A guy on the auszcar.com forums has order one.

Here is a link to the thread and has some good info also

http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/ ... 235.0.html


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:16 pm 
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So today, I happened to have a chat with the aussie OS Giken distributor :)

All the info is in Chartoo's link, but he confirmed that the TC24 castings in this pic:
Image

...are actually old castings from the original batch in the early 80s, and were lying around in the OS-G warehouse. However, that's all there is. There's no cam covers, timing covers, camshafts, valves, manifolds, valve train, etc. So only Part #1 of a 100-part kit is in this picture. And yes they are making some more, but every single part has to be made, and so it's time consuming. But they are taking the opportunity to update the TC24 for more modern thinking on cylinder head design, and so it should be a cracker.

Pricing? Ok....you sitting down? No seriously. Grab a chair and sit down :)

The head will be Y3.3mil, or about US$42,000 before shipping and taxes. As an option, you can specify an OS Giken 3.2 stroker kit, and the whole lot will come as a crate motor with IRTBs and headers. It will be safe to 11,000rpm and make 400hp. But you will need Y7.2mil or US$90,000 plus shipping and taxes :D

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:47 pm 
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kev wrote:
The head will be Y3.3mil, or about US$42,000 before shipping and taxes. As an option, you can specify an OS Giken 3.2 stroker kit, and the whole lot will come as a crate motor with IRTBs and headers. It will be safe to 11,000rpm and make 400hp. But you will need Y7.2mil or US$90,000 plus shipping and taxes


Ok, I have been counting and counting and counting again but it looks like I just don´t have enough kidneys.


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