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 Post subject: Euro 'Gemini' drifter...
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:01 am 
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Location: Arlington, TX, USA
This is kinda hot... :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:37 pm
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Location: Sugarhouse, Utah
yeah it is. :tu: :tu: :twisted:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:37 pm
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Location: Sugarhouse, Utah
on a related note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nve_7U_Jgx8
damn that engine sounds good!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 34
Location: NORWAY
gemeni?
thats a Opel Kadett C coupe
i used to own the 2door sedan version of that. good car
but i cant see that it would be a good drift car, since the suspension is to be polite "basic"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
rx-7fd3s wrote:
gemeni?
thats a Opel Kadett C coupe
i used to own the 2door sedan version of that. good car
but i cant see that it would be a good drift car, since the suspension is to be polite "basic"


What?

Kadett and Gemini were sister cars.

Isuzu Gemini ZZ/R Coupe
Front Suspension - Independent, unequal-length A-arms (double wishbone), coil springs, hydraulic tube shock absorbers, anti-roll bar
Rear Suspension - Three link, live axle, torque tube, trailing arm, panhard rod, coil springs, hydraulic tube shock absorbers, anti-roll bar
Engine - 1.8 liter DOHC 130 PS / 128 HP
Weight - 965 kg / 2127 lb


Corolla AE86
Front Suspension - Independent, MacPherson struts, coil springs, hydraulic shocks, I beam lower control arm.
Rear suspension - Live axle, 4-bar links with lateral rod, swaybar.
Engine - 1.6 liter 4AGE DOHC, disputed power rating accepted as inflated in brochures, accepted to actually measure around 125 HP
Weight - 998 kg / 2200 lb


Double wishbone front suspension is what sports and exotic have. EG: Lotus Elise/Exige, Corvette, Ariel Atom.
A MacPherson strut bolted to a spindle, riding on an I beam lower control arm is what economy cars have. EG: Ford Escort, Yugo, Chevy Cavalier.
Double wishbone reduces camber as the suspension compresses, improving traction during cornering.
The MacPherson strut suspension increases camber as it compresses, causing loss of front end traction and understeer.

MacPherson strut does allow for the use of camber plates. But without an upper arm to decrease the camber angle as the suspension moves up, the tendency toward understeer persists. Full race conversions usually involve conversion to double wishbone front suspension.
And a good double wishbone design like the Gemini has, will have slotted mounts for the upper ball joint to provide the same adjustment as camber plates do for MacPherson strut cars.

And the Gemini weighs less and has a higher power output than the AE86.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:37 pm
Posts: 548
Location: Sugarhouse, Utah
rx-7fd3s wrote:
gemeni?
thats a Opel Kadett C coupe
i used to own the 2door sedan version of that. good car
but i cant see that it would be a good drift car, since the suspension is to be polite "basic"


my understanding was that these days all you needed to drift was RWD and a little extra power. since almost everything on the road is a FWD piece of crap, any real car will do, even if it is a little basic.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:11 pm
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Location: croatia
Hot pic of hot car.
The hotness!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:02 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
opelboy76 wrote:
my understanding was that these days all you needed to drift was RWD and a little extra power.
...any real car will do, even if it is a little basic.


That probably sums up the topic.
But being able to control the car while the tires and car are not moving in the direction they were designed to move, would be suspension design and tuning.
The Gemini PF or T Series has a front suspension that is superior in design to the popular drift car, the Corolla AE86. And the rear suspension design is the same. (Fully independent rear suspension instead of live axle would be an upgrade and improvement for both.)
As a basis for a drift car, or a race car, the Gemini would be the better choice because of this. However, the Gemini was not deigned to slide sideways, and lacks the tens of thousands of hours of R&D and tens of millions of dollars invested in making the AE86 slide sideways with all those shiny aftermarket parts.
Probably more important would be that while the Gemini was not unpopular, there just aren't stacks of them laying about to provide replacement body panels once you hang one on a concrete wall. AE86s were sold like toilet paper and finding a bumper or quarter panel is no challenge. Meanwhile, the last time a Gemini Coupe was available for purchase was 1985 when they were still in showrooms. I've seen four door cars for sale, but not a coupe for at least the last decade.

The inferiority of the MacPherson strut front suspension is one of those things that people realize really only after many years of fighting understeer. It is the normal suspension on the front of almost all FWD cars, and this is probably more responsible for understeer than weight distribution or using the front tires to propel the vehicle. Using this suspension on the front of a RWD car really reduces the performance potential. This was even realized with the Hakosuka Skyline GTR:
http://www.gtrclub.org/c10.shtml
Quote:
The GT-R used a strut-based front suspension and a semi-trailing arm independent rear suspension. With an original wheelbase of 2640mm, the PGC-10 sedans were known to have strong understeer, thus requiring race drivers to brake exceptionally hard in corners in order to swing out the rear end. While fans loved to see these exhibitions, it was tiring to the drivers and actually lowered the potential of the GT-R.


This is the reason that the Skylines had such a problem with the Belletts. The lower powered Belletts have double wishbone front suspension, and were designed for maximum cornering. The Skyline is a big engine in a lesser handling body. The Skyline goes blowing past on the straight aways, but then the Belletts blow past in the corners without lifting off the throttle. If the track did not have a straight away long enough to build an adequate lead, they could not pull away from the Belletts, and lost. So you see the Skylines staying away from the tighter tracks after 1969.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:40 pm 
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rx-7fd3s wrote:
gemeni?
thats a Opel Kadett C coupe


That's why "Gemini" was in quotes. 8)

I knew it was a Kadett. The Opel badges are a dead giveaway. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:10 pm
Posts: 77
Location: salem oregon
here is a gemini ( buick opel ) or kadett c for sale... he still has it and bottom line is $2000 no less
http://salem.craigslist.org/cto/2104861679.html


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