A mythical Toyota AA or "just" Chrysler Airflow?

SharmCos · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:49 pm

I was thinking it's a copycat model but then some Russians on the forum would have known this..

Russian Far East is near enough to Japan.. smuggled cars?

ben · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:21 am

I don't have anything new to contribute except to say that I find this whole mystery terribly exciting

toyotageek · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:10 pm

ben wrote:

I don't have anything new to contribute except to say that I find this whole mystery terribly exciting

Ben, I say you fly directly to Russia and investigate this yourself firsthand! Of course I'll accompany you to document the everything. :lol:

cid_casterwick · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:35 am

A truly compelling find.

If you can in fact get some more info from the "owner" ask for under the hood shots in and around the point where the hood would come into contact with the OG body. The Window lines, 3 dashes, and back window are a dead giveaway that this is the real deal, but the only thing holding it up are fuzzy details with the nose.

As stated earlier the "x's" on the fire wall might make it easier.

There appears to be alot missing wich makes me think...

Whats running around in Russia wearing the fenders of the only known AA in existence? Do we know of any chassis notation that Toyoda would have used back then that we could look for? some kind of identification plate? Serial number?

TSiSS350 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:48 am

This is a pretty amazing find no matter what model Toyota it winds up being. I think given the aformention bumps in front of the doors that it is DEF a Toyota. Curious to see what the folks at Toyota say/do when they get wind of this!

ohcanada_00 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:32 pm

this whole thing is like a great soap opera. I need popcorn just to read through this thread.

Sven7 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:12 pm

I just came across this, and as a Transportation Design student, I'll say that there is no way in hell that grille is original. Not only does it not relate to anything else on the car, ...is that white stuff Bondo? It appears that the only original body panels on the front are the portions with the fins and that someone has cut, welded or modified the quarter panel in a big way. I imagine the missing wheel arch was damaged in a crash many years ago. As for the rear, we can only guess, but I'll bet it has to do with hauling firewood. :lol:

And regarding the other find, The grille again is not original, and the trunk appears not to be either. Also note that the first one's hood is not original and does not open in the same fashion as this. One of them is a retrofit. The only one fits the design is the second one.

I hope I helped; this is probably history in the making!

Jhamflapper · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:14 pm

Ruined by Sven7

Sven7 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:22 pm

Is it Devan or Jeff? Hmmm :lol:

toyotageek · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:26 pm

You guys make me laugh... :lol:

Here we are sitting at our desks, looking at tiny 4x6" pictures of a car and we're saying yea or nay as to what it is. Well, no one can be certain until they look first hand and make some real comparisons.

That said, even though I was a naysayer at first, I think the first car and maybe the second just might have some Toyoda blood in them. There are some undercarriage photos on the Russian site that seem to have some very similar characteristics of a Toyoda A series vehicle.

I've contacted a friend in Japan. He is making some inquiries with Toyota, and as soon as he gets some positive feedback, I'll let you know.

Until then, it's just a guessing game for all of us.

toyotageek · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Compare...

Not exactly the same, but close.
Yea :tu:

or Nay

?

Original AA
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/toyotageek/4154902904/" title="scan0001 by toyotageek, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2616/4154902904_c66c6ba072.jpg" width="500" height="265" alt="scan0001"></a>

Russian car, undercarriage, center looking forward
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/toyotageek/4154141177/" title="russiaAA005 by toyotageek, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2744/4154141177_5f4dac9d78_o.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="russiaAA005"></a>

Russian car, undercarriage, center looking back
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/toyotageek/4154902946/" title="russiaAA006 by toyotageek, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2514/4154902946_64220dc5d5_o.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="russiaAA006"></a>

Sven7 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:49 pm

Oof those pics are really hard to judge. I shared this thread on a few other forums; maybe we'll get some extra help, and not just inside jokes!

kaiju · **Joined:** Fri May 01, 2009 10:55 pm **Posts:** 38

I don't have or know much to contribute on the AA mystery but this sure makes for exciting reading!

The pictures of the undercarriage do look similar but I noticed that the Toyota AA in question has some additions compared to the original AA photo toyotageek has shared.

1. The vehicle in question's rear suspension has both leaf springs and coil springs.

2. The drilled (cross members?) support sections in the original AA don't have the additional metal brace nearest to the to rear like the possible AA does. Also, the original AA seems to have much larger cut-outs.

Other than that, both look basically the same. Those drilled members do make it an interesting case though.

I probably wasn't much help but if this turns out to be a Toyota AA I wanted to be a part of this historical event. :mrgreen:

ohcanada_00 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:42 am

Those drilled cross members make an awfully compelling case now. It's hard to perfectly see but the angle looks right if not VERY close and lets face it, thats not exactly a part of the car you take the time to fix or replace should any damage happen and if it is, would someone in rual Russia really take the time to drill the holes?

chokudoriDR30 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:09 pm

Nitzer wrote:

The second car is reported to be a "recent find in the Russian Far East"

You forgot to mention that he says it's a Chrysler

. I'm still on page 3 of that thread.

<--- из Бобруйска

.

For those who are trying to contact Toyota Japan, why not go about it the easy way? Contact the curator of the Toyota Museum here in the US. I'm sure she can figure this out rather quickly and knows how to reach the right people.

Contact: Susan Sanborn

Phone: (310) 468-4728

Fax: (310) 381-5353

susan_sanborn@toyota.com

chokudoriDR30 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Ok, I'm on page 13... According to the replies of that forum's members:

Front bumper is actually a rear bumper for a Pobeda (GAZ-20).

The front suspension, drivetrain bits and steering wheel are from a GAZ-24 according to one reply.

The OP says the front suspension is a mish-mash of "whatever was handy at the time". The rear end is an add-on with a grafted-on GAZ-21 trunk lid.

The car has been in town since "the dawn of time" and there is no knowledge of its history. The car is titled as a 1950 BMW.

That's what happens in a closed society with no access to spare parts. Hell, look at Cuba, stuffing Lada engines into 1950's American boats

.

Edit:

Here's what he says is original to the car.
1. left-overs of the body (not including the floor)
2. All four doors
3. Mutilated frame

That is "it!" according to him. Everything else is non-original due to the car being in constant use in the USSR for so long.

toyotageek · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:51 pm

chokudoriDR30 wrote:

For those who are trying to contact Toyota Japan, why not go about it the easy way? Contact the curator of the Toyota Museum here in the US. I'm sure she can figure this out rather quickly and knows how to reach the right people.

Contact: Susan Sanborn

Uh, you'd be surprised it's not that easy.

I've known Susan for over 10 years. I already have contact info for Japan. Trust me, I'm trying as many ways as possible to get to the right people.

Lincoln Stax · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:28 pm

Looking at the photo of the underside of the Russian car looking backwards, there is a cross-brace welded into the frame (between the outer frame and the inner A-shaped section) that's not in the photo of the AA frame. Also, the holes in the inner frame section are much smaller and much further apart than in the AA photo.

Is there a way to contact the owner of the Russian car and get him to take some measurements? Wheelbase, track, distance between frame rails, etc?

chokudoriDR30 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:00 pm

Lincoln Stax wrote:

Is there a way to contact the owner of the Russian car and get him to take some measurements? Wheelbase, track, distance between frame rails, etc?

Nitzer has already contacted him on drom.ru (I'd do it, but I'm not registered and too busy to do so)... However, in the thread, he stated that the frame is basically mutilated.

toyotageek · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:07 pm

chokudoriDR30 wrote:

Lincoln Stax wrote:

Is there a way to contact the owner of the Russian car and get him to take some measurements? Wheelbase, track, distance between frame rails, etc?

Nitzer has already contacted him on drom.ru (I'd do it, but I'm not registered and too busy to do so)... However, in the thread, he stated that the frame is basically mutilated.

ChokudoriDR30, I'm curious, can you read / write Russian? I tried deciphering the Russian forum with Google language with mixed results :roll:

Some stuff came out good, but there always seems to be the odd word or two :lol:

A mythical Toyota AA or "just" Chrysler Airflow?

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