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 Post subject: MS55 Crown L40 gearbox swap to W50 or W58
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:58 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
What options are open here - have tried to trawl the majority of foras but get lost in coding and abbreviations.
Just need simple explanation - :D
If there is a simple explanation ...


Last edited by Holmen on Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: Bay Area, California
Your Crown has a 2M engine right? My GUESS is that any transmission found in any M engined car will fit.

Example: In my 1973 Corona, I pulled out the 2M engine and installed a 7M engine. The transmission lenght was the same, so I used the stock Corona driveshaft. The difference was the 5 speed W56 that I put in with the 7M is wider at the driveshaft end for the 5th gear, so the mount points are different.

But the bellhouseing bolt pattern should be the same for all the M engines and W transmissions. That would make a W58 transmisison from a 7M-GE engine bolt up to the engine fine, but you may need a custom mount.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Sounds good - and promising. That means that I can go hunting for a transmission. My engine is in really great condition so no need to upgrade - just need the 5th gear for overdrive so the engine doesn't rev so high. The gear lever should probably be able to fit without major alterations.
Hmmm ...


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:14 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: Bay Area, California
Having a 5th gear is a big part of why I wanted to do the engine swap on my car too.

In my car the shifter was further rearward for the 5spd transmisson than it was for the stock 4spd. My car probably had a W50 as well. I cut the transmission tunnel to make room, but the shifter still came out of the stock opening in the console fine. It's just further back than before.

You can check my build thread to see photos.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:52 pm 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Just trawled your entire thread - great reading and good pictures of the gearbox solution.
I guess I will just need to get hold of a 5 speed tranny. Don't want to go to the engine swap and really only need a 5th gear with o/d.
And then again, I will also consider lowering her so I need to find the right springs.
Ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:53 pm
Posts: 371
Location: Bay Area, California
Holmen wrote:
Just trawled your entire thread - great reading and good pictures of the gearbox solution.
I guess I will just need to get hold of a 5 speed tranny. Don't want to go to the engine swap and really only need a 5th gear with o/d.
And then again, I will also consider lowering her so I need to find the right springs.
Ideas?


Thanks!

Just do the transmission swap. Even though an EFI engine makes more power and gets better fuel mileage, the old carburetted engines make a great noise. Plus an EFI engine is a big and expensive project for most people.

If you do some research, you can find a W series transmission with the shifter in the proper location so hopefully you won't have to cut any metal. ( If that's important to you )

Start here: http://www.retrotech.co.nz/Tech/Toyota-boxes.php

You can see all the different shifter locations available!

For springs, I would start with King Springs in Australia. http://www.kingsprings.com.au/


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:14 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Did my search on the net and a few options come up - I can find Celica TA40 with 5 speeds, presumably W50. But will the belhousing fit?
Or else, I've found a couple of Supras - it's a MA61 and a MA70 and they should both have the W58 gearbox available.
And I belive that maybe these will fit belhousingwise etc.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Boise, ID
Here try this..

http://northbaymotorsports.com/gearboxes.htm

I am doing the same thing, just going with a W58 behind my 4m. I'm pretty sure that I will have to completely fabricate a new cross member though.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:06 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Still a bit confusing. If I get a tranny from a MA61 or a MA70 from a Supra, will the belhousing bolt straight on? If it does, then I don't see the big issue in getting tails fat shortens and making a custom gearbox mount.
Think I might write to the guy with the link you gave me - thx.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Boise, ID
Basically the biggest thing that I take from this, is that if you have an "M" or "R" engine (4m, 5m, 7m, 20r, 22r) it will fit. You may have to use a different bell housing if you take it off an "R" engine. If it is off an "M" the bell housing never changed from 2m through 7m. These are all straight bolt up swaps (minus the cross member).

Hope that helps. I am actually going to pick up a W58 either this afternoon or Thursday, so I will take a pic of the two side by side so you can see the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:30 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Great - thanks for keeping it simple for me :-)
Mine is a 2M has a W40 four speed so I'll get hold of a W58. There are a few to be found here and they have the best ratio in 5th imo. If I decide to upgrade later with a monster motor it'll be ready for that too. Looking forward to the pictures and following the swap.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:54 pm 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Summing up my options:
First choice - W40 tranny out - W50 tranny in. That is if the swap is a basic bolt out bolt in swap. I have not been able to find out whther a W50 is different in length so that I have to make new gearbox mounts. If it is a different size I may as well go after:
Second choice - W40 tranny out W58 tranny in. Will need new gearbox mount and a new propeller shaft and I may have to do some work on the gearlever placement.

Fiirst choice seems to be the most simple
Second most future safe if I decide to go with more powerful engine.

And both give me a fifth overdrive gear.

Thoughts anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Boise, ID
So this is what I discovered last night..

Make sure the transmission you buy has the bell housing on it still.. The W40 won't swap over. If it has the fork assembly as well it would be a bonus. I'm going to have to buy both.

Both of the transmissions are the same length, but if you get it out of a Supra you will need a new shift tower.. The Supra is 3" farther back.

Both run 21 spline output shafts, so no need to change your driveline.

Either transmission will require a new cross member. It's just in the wrong place.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:49 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Thx - that is for the W58 - right? Meaning that I need to make sure that I get the belhousing with the tranny!
And then it should be no major issue to bolt to the 2m.
New crossmember - check :-)

When looking at the local wreckers I found a W50 gearbox from a RA40 Celica - 5 speed and whould be able to bolt on to a 2m - or.
Seems like the bellhousing is part of the casing ...
http://www.supra-visby.dk/product_info.php?cPath=2_8_24&products_id=14


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Boise, ID
Yup that's for the W58.. The one you found will bolt up easy.. Only thing I saw was the shifter assembly is farther back like the one I have. From what I remember though, you can find the right shifter assembly that will line up off of a truck transmission.

Looks good though! At least that one is clean


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 W40 transmission swap to 5 speed from Celica/Supra?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:44 pm 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Sounds good - did a bit of lifting and crawling just before and took a heap of photos of the gearbox from under the car.
I am not sure if I get the setup with the slave cylinder for the clutch, the side linkage for the gearlever - as long as it bolts up to the engine I uess the other stuff will work somehow - and I mean somehow ...
http://holmensgarage.blogspot.dk/2014/07/here-are-som-photos-of-w40-4-speed-in.html


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 Crown L40 gearbox swap to W50 or W58
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:06 am 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Looks like my gearbox is not a W40 but a L40 - which was also used for early models Hilux. Seems like the Japanese were just as good as the Italians at just finding the parts on the shelves of the factory and making them fit the newest model 8)
Being a L40 it has the linkages on the side.
Knowing that I will have to make a new crossmember for the rear mount and also anew length on the tailshaft I am trying to make 100% sure that I go for the right repolacement box. When looking at the image that I posted of the W50 box from a Celeica, it has two challenges - one is that the speedodrive is on the opposite side and two, the belhousing doesn't seem to have mounting holes for a clutch slave cylinder. I don't think that the L40 bellhousing will fit the W50 gearbox so my other option would be to go for a W58 where I have the bellhousing as well. Here I am assuming that taking a W58 box from a MA61 Supra it will be a straight bolt on setup to the 2M engine given that the 5M engine is the same block.
But does the W58 and the belhousing have the slavecylinder positioned on the side like my L40 - or is it just a question of using the slave cylinder that comes with the W58 gearbox and connecting the pipes to it?
Lots of questions, hopefully som clever Toy guys out there that can help ...
http://holmensgarage.blogspot.dk/


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 Crown L40 gearbox swap to W50 or W58
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:20 am
Posts: 34
Location: australia
Well if you can get a W58 from the Supra then yes it will bolt straight up to the 2M,use the clutch slave that's with the W58 and you will need to modify the gearbox crossmember and you will need a longer tailshaft(1400mm to be exact).I have done this conversion in a MS55 myself but used a W57(same as W58 but different gearing).
Cheers Brett.


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 Crown L40 gearbox swap to W50 or W58
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:05 pm 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
Cheers Brett,
Sounds like it isn't difficult at all then??
I'll make sure that I get a W58 or W57.
Did you have to cut the transmission tunnel to get space for the gearlever?
And when doing so, did you have to 'fix' the center console??
And does the speedo drive fit as well?
Modifying the gearbox crossmember, yes, I guess that I can use part of the mount from the Supra.
Did you have the existing tailshaft lengthened or did you find another one that fit (dream on ;-)

Lot's of questions, but it seems like you now the answers?!

ATB
/P


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 Post subject: Re: MS55 Crown L40 gearbox swap to W50 or W58
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:08 pm 

Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Posts: 65
Location: Helsingør Denmark
You may also be able to help me out on how I go about finding loweríng springs for my MS55 too - I don't want to cut existing, but would be great to find some from another make of car that would bolt straight in.
When I get around to it, I'd love to put put in a new engine - not with injection, but with triple Webers or similar - would make a scream of a sleeper ...


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