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 Post subject: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 pm
Posts: 25
pretty simple. start my 3sge, let it warm (or not), push in the clutch, select 1st gear, slowly let up on the clutch and mildly apply gas - it surges like it wants to launch (drag strip style).

i have replaced all vacuum lines. i have bled the coolant system of air pockets. i have inspected the TPS and AFM - both are within spec.

the o2 sensor, clutch, flywheel and injectors have 4000 miles on them total. i have never launched on this engine and the engine was fully rebuilt.

previously, the surging was so bad that the TPS was destroyed (smashed against the rear firewall). i replaced the TPS with a new Toyota TPS - inspected and zero'd it out.

the air filter is in good condition. the oil and oil filters are all in good condition.

i even tried spraying carb cleaner all around the throttle body and top AND bottom of the intake manifold - the idle did not stutter or bog at all.

also... just to add even more confusion. if i am SUPER gentle on the clutch/gas, it will move forward as if everything is normal and i take slam the gas pedal straight to the floor - the engine will accelerate all the way past 7000rpms without any hesitation or stutter.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:46 pm
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Location: Magna, UT
Could it be the injectors or FPR dumping too much fuel? How are the spark plugs looking after this?

Could a problem in the ignition system cause surging?

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:11 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 pm
Posts: 25
thanks for the reply.

from my research, the 88-89 celica gts used the 295cc injectors, which is exactly what i have - they were all cleaned by Witch Hunter and the one with the most flow is 312cc and the lowest being 308cc i believe. the FPR is new (from Napa Autoparts) as are all the vacuum lines on the engine.

these are the vacuum lines that i used. pretty strong bits.

http://www.hiperformancestore.com/hosebyfoot.htm

spark plug wires are from Magnecor - the rest of the ignition system is all stock (original), so that is possible. the only part that would make me think that it is not the ignition system is that it idles perfectly and once past that surging (1000rpm-1500rpm), it pulls all the way to redline without any issues - slow rev or fast rev.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:39 pm
Posts: 245
Location: NC
Have you checked your MAP sensor? Fuel tables are generated(at least with megasquirt) using MAP(manifold air pressure) vs. RPM. If the MAP sensor is faulty it would throw your fuel table far enough out to cause the surging. My 22re did the same type of surging before I tuned it correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 pm
Posts: 25
i did check the AFM versus the BGB - everything was in spec.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:44 am 
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I had something slightly similar on my alltrac. When I cleaned out my fuel filter and ran fuel system cleaner it helped, but not sure if that is your issue. That is just what I tried and it was cheap.

You said the plugs are new, but have you pulled them to see if they still look new/properly burned? That could help in diagnosing.

It is a weird issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Gen1 (88 Celica GTS) 3sge surging
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:07 pm
Posts: 25
UtahSleeper wrote:
I had something slightly similar on my alltrac. When I cleaned out my fuel filter and ran fuel system cleaner it helped, but not sure if that is your issue. That is just what I tried and it was cheap.

You said the plugs are new, but have you pulled them to see if they still look new/properly burned? That could help in diagnosing.

It is a weird issue.


i have already run fuel cleaner in the fuel system as well as replaced the fuel filter.

the spark plugs have about 10 miles on them. granted, i have not checked them recently, but i'm sure you can imagine why. :)

a guy on ToyotaNation replied to my post there and suggested that i look into clutch chatter. so, i watched a few videos on youtube of different vehicles with clutch chatter and it is EXACTLY what i am experiencing.

so... i get to replace the clutch kit that has 4000 miles on it. thankfully, the Exedy OEM clutch kit is only $100. pulling the trans will be a bit annoying though. at least it will allow me to repack the throw out bearing with better grease - yay!

that is the route i am headed currently and i will report back if that does resolve the issue.

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