Alan, what a drama queen you are to characterize others as nuts shopping for tinfoil to line their homes and then act as if you are mortally wounded when those you have characterized respond in kind.
And the immediate run of misspellings of the registered name of your target. What class you show in your conduct.
How much more arrogance can you display. And your commentary makes obvious your attitudes of the rest of us who do not think the sun rises and sets squarely in the tailpipe of a Skyline.
I can already see that Alan has chosen to conduct his argument on the level of a 12 year old, with the scoring based on quantity of posts, how far the debate can be diverted from the topic, and the level of absurdity of those diversions. Well done Alan, you demonstrate black belt level skills in avoiding the topic. You'll go very far in this world, as long as content, knowledge, and expertise have nothing to do with your path of direction.
Optimistic performance of the Bellett GTX?
I pointed out only that the use of GTX by Isuzu predates that of Nissan and provided a race date with results better than I could have accomplished, so I consider it respectable. I have not seen or heard stories of any other manufacturer taking a SOHV 4 cylinder, 2 door four seat production coupe, replacing the roof and fenders with aluminum panels, bolting in a DOHC, 8 valve, 4 cylinder, engine, and putting it into competition against single seat, open and closed top sports racers.
August 22-23, 1968, Suzuka 1000 km.
(Appears to be the oldest result I can find and dates the use of the name GTX.)http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1968000080
Apparently a respectable enough finish to position eight, overall win going to a Toyota 7, the other Toyota 7 finishing in 29th position. I see regular Belletts finishing 11th, 14th, 21st, 28th, 32nd, 39th, 40th, and the other GTX finishing 35th, which would not be much to brag about except that the highest finishing Skyline took the 42nd position. I see the mighty R380 retired without finishing a lap.
They say "Before you can finish a race first, first you must finish." Unless Alan is going to suggest that the conditions were somehow different for the nine Belletts that finished in front of all the Skyline, than the for all the Skylines, or that the attrition was caused by some sort of foul play on the part of the Belletts, then the conditions were the same for all competitors and any complaining is, as Allan previously termed it, sour grapes.
Suzuka 12 hour, August 9-10, 1969, More Attrition?
Wow, every time Nissan races at Suzuka the loss is due to attrition? More sour-Alan-grapes?http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000160
Bellett fans are rather proud of this event, the GTX took first place overall.
According to the results, a Corolla, a Publica, a Bluebird and a regular, SOHC or SOHV Bellett finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th, and the top finishing Skyline, a Skyline GTR, took 7th.
The entire remainder of the GTX entries I could find:http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000106http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000151http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000152http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1970000216
All this was found the hard way. There is no book to skim through and be spoon fed someone else's opinion or spin. Just learning to recognize the word ベレット in the results list, start with:http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000001
and go through:http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969999999
and look at every page.
Then change the date and do the same for every other year in the database.
The spelling of Shigeki.
Really Alan, directly to spelling as a cornerstone argument. And all the -san crap, as if that proves you are more authentically Japanese than any of the rest of us.
Go back to that first link cited:http://www.jaf.or.jp/CGI/msports/result ... 1969000160
The man's name is listed as: 重輝. When I type in "shige", my Japanese word processing program gives me: 重. When I type in "ki", my Japanese text editing program gives me: 輝. When I type in "aki", the above listed Kanji is not offered as an option for that combination of letters. I make no claim that the name entered on the JAF results was spelled correctly by the clerk transcribing the paper results into the computer, but that is what the document says.
I would additionally point out that running a non-scientific Google search, I get 11,XXX results for Shigeaki Asaoka, and 20,XXX results for Shigeki Asaoka. If document content is any indication of accepted use, then dropping the
I would also point out that dropping the second vowels is the accepted standard for Romanization of Japanese words, and I see no evidence of Alan's holiness spelling Tokyo as "toukyou", Osaka as oosaka", or Mazda as "matsuda".
I see no link or documentation offered supporting Alan's claim of class divisions.
And it remains conspicuous that there are so many instances where Skylines did not finish above other four cylinder cars in the JAF database for the 1969 thorugh 1972 years, and the lack of outright wins for Skyline for the same period.
Stealing GT, GTX, and GTR?
GT has been borrowed so often it is effectively public domain.
GTR is no longer very exclusive, Noble makes a very nice GTR.
GTX is quite a bit rarer.
But the first to use in a market would be the one with the most claim. There is no argument regarding first use of GT in Japan. What's the likely beginning of Nissan's use? Two Nissan executives sitting in the old Yokohama headquarters: First exec: "Hey, those guys down the street in Fujisawa put out a car they call the GT, what should we do in response?" Second Exec: "Start stamping out GT badges and sticking them on the back of Skylines or we'll start loosing sales, you dolt!"
GTX, clearly predates Nissan's use.
GTR, taking into consideration that production starts before sales, the first to sell is not the first to use. With the GTX, and the fact it was the obvious missing link between the GT and GTR, it is plain to see Nissan was not the first to make use of the name, just the first to push cars off the assembly line. And apparently prematurely because their performance in racing competition through 1969 would lead to lots of sour-Alan-grapes.
Additionally, in other markets, you don't see direct competition borrowing model names. There was no "Camaro GT" in response Ford's offering and there was no "Mustang SS" in response to Chevy's offering.
Production car versus racing prototype?
Completely invalid point. As if Alan would not cry foul if Isuzu had introduced a R380 production car in 1970. Or if Chinese car maker Cheri introduced a Skyline model today.
Withholding the Fairlady and Bluebird from competition against the Skyline GTR.
Go through the race results as described above, start with 1969000000001, and go through 1969999999999. Then do the same for 1970, 1971, 1972.
For 1967, 1968, and the first half of 1969, Skylines are seen in competition with Belletts, Fairladies, and Bluebirds. After the middle of 1969, this changes. Belletts compete against Fairladies and Bluebirds in many races. Belletts compete against Skylines, but never do the Skylines mix with the Fairladies and Bluebirds.
Go through the database, it's plain to see. No spoon feeding from a fan book is going to reveal that fact.
41 races won in 1971.
That's not the 50 that Alan chants from sun up to sun set. It also avoids 1969 and 1970.
I would first ask the source and the citation for the picture. Likely a fan book, written for Skyline enthusiasts, based on more Nissan advertising content, and filtered through a writer who wants to make Skyline enthusiasts happy when reading his book.
More importantly, this list has not been provided in a format that it can be checked by me against the JAF database. I never claimed to be able to read Japanese, and can not cut and paste the content of a jpeg or enlarge to the point that I could read and waste half a lifetime looking up Kanji symbols in a three inch thick Kanji dictionary, matching the little tree and diagonal arcing lines with the radicals in order to find the root words and then pray I can match them with the proper names they make when assembled in groups of two or three.
A list of 55 races, maybe 56, it's hard to read the pixels.
Again, source, citation, and presentation in a manner and format that it can be verified.
Documentation sourced from Nissan advertising.
Central to Alan's argument is that this list of 50 was in Nissan's promotional literature.
People are not known for being overly honest when they are selling cars. The last time I checked, car salesmen were considered relatively dishonest and the industry as a whole is not exactly on the list of most respected professions.
A very good recent example might be Ford's claim that the Fusion will have a higher resale value in five years than a Camry.
Is there any need for pointing out the over used "Best in Class" which is always a list of the better aspects of the car being sold, compared against the worst aspects of a list of other cars cherry picked to show they are worse. All the time ignoring the shortcomings of the product being sold.
And does anyone need to point out the advertising campaign of the 1980's making fun of the ridiculousness of automobile marketing, where Lying Joe claimed his cars were faster than a speeding bullet and his trucks were the only ones that would survive an attack of giant lizards.
Anything sourced from a marketing department is suspect and needs to be gone through with a fine toothed comb because the marketing department is in charge of lying about the product.
Now Alan can go through and post another dozen off topic responses, never address the central issue, and continue smarmy, disrespectful shots while feigning maximum injury when he is met with the same bile he dishes out.