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What engine should go in my Rx3 sedan ?
Single distributor 12a Rx3 engine 23%  23%  [ 3 ]
Twin distributor 12a PP engine 23%  23%  [ 3 ]
1600 808 4 cylinder 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
Leave it with the stock 10a drive line 31%  31%  [ 4 ]
Give my 12a housings to Dave and move on to the next big thing the Toyota Lexcen 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 13
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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:18 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Fat 4 RE wrote:
Yeah every one that owns a rotary need a tow truck ride home once in a while just to remind you how fragile these old things are. ( as long is it is not every drive all is good)


Something was bound to go wrong, I just didn't know what. What you couldn't see was half a tool box packed in the back :lol: . Unfortunately repairing a gearbox wasn't something I could do by the road side. I drove for about 1km trying to get it out of gear before calling it quits.

ewokracing wrote:
Bravo John. It looks fantastic. The side stripes and the Wats are perfect with the white paint.
When I get my tax return I'll be hitting up Marcus for some custom Rover bits. :D


Thanks Geoff.... what could Marcus possibly do improve a Rover, where would he start :lol:

Thanks for all the comments, I had a lot of fun even though it ended with a tow home. I think what I was trying to say before is the performance of the car was quite "raw". It goes well, stops OK but not like anything modern. If there is one thing that stands out aside from it's obvious primitive short comings it would be the slow steering ratio. It could do with something like a quick rack like what's used in Ford Escorts but a ball and worm equivalent for Mazda's. Most people that saw it commented on the wheel choice and how it complimented the car. I suppose it's a nice change from big chrome rims you see these days which I'm guessing make an average old car handle even worse with horribly low profile tyres.

A more sensible choice in engines would be either a 12a turbo or a 13B mild port but then it would loose it's character. It's not everyday you see hear of an original Rx3 still fitted with the original engine.

I've got limited time to pull the gearbox and send it away next week otherwise it won't be running again until the end of the year. Lucky Ive got an extra pair of hands to give me a hand.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:11 pm 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
The update is a bit of a mix depending on my mood :laugh:

Sedan...
I started playing with the beaver panel, I might still replace it depending on how it turns out. Pic 1 rivet repairs and Pic 2 some brazing from an old replacement repair. It should turn out okay. As you can see there wasn't much left of the original boot floor.
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The lower corner section is beyond repair but that doesn't matter as I'm making a new 10a exhaust cutout from a sheet that I've already curved. I'll make a number plate bracket by using the one off the coupe as a template.
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Straightened out ready for fabrication work. The beaver will be blasted after it's repaired.
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I got sick of metal work so started on the headlight bezels, they are pretty good actually, need minor repairs, paint stripping and a new coat of paint. More on these later...
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Unpicking sill panel, as good as they look on the outside rust lurks on the inside.
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Sill panel on the opposite side, I need to weld the end on. The metal dress trim has a plastic protector strip around the outside, some thing I never noticed before.
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Pic 1 clearer photo of the plastic strip. Pic 2... more surface rust on the inside.
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Sills ready for repair and then blasting..... metal sill trim clips will be replaced with late model plastic ones.
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Coupe...
I wish the coupe was running, there's nothing better than hearing a ported NA engine going through the gears. It still needs some tidying up but I love the look of it. Nothing beats the look of an Rx3 coupe 8)

The radiator is unbolted from it's rubber mounts to allow it to tilt back without straining the hoses. Feels like deja vu.... The master and slave although new will be sent away for stainless sleeves and new seals, the junk you buy these days is hit and miss.
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Box is out, I've been really efficient pulling these out now :laugh: I couldn't help myself so I knocked the pan off to take a look....
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You can see the fork has been welded before but is out of tolerance. There's a good couple of mm between it and the hub. The other fork is tight within the hub. Now I'm not sure if the weld cracked and fell into the pan or if it wasn't addressed as part of the build. My mechanic is machining up a couple of parts for 2nd and 3rd so it never happens again. I'll most likely need a new shift fork as well, I hope he has one otherwise I'll be buying another gearbox for parts which is okay because I plan on building a ported 12a twin dizzy car. I'm not sure I like single dizzy cars to own one. I'm slowly collecting parts for that car which will either be a Savanna coupe or a Rx2 coupe. Once I have the twin dizzys out of my system I'd like a SD stock Rx3 coupe but without the REAPS boat anchor. Someone I know is collecting Rx4 coupes in every available colour, I'm collecting twin dizzys in different configurations :laugh: The sedan will have a mild port 10a with the original carb but retain all it's subtle suspension modifications. Pic 2, poor little coupe, should be ready for Spring, I'm surprised nothing else went wrong with it :laugh:
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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:15 pm 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
I stuffed around with some original door trims I had laying about, I had this thought to restore the chrome work some time ago. I'll let the photos do the talking, these are off my Rx3 sedan. The only comments I'll make is the old chrome needs to be peeled off so the base is 100% smooth and, the tape is some high quality aluminium tape that my brother got while working at Qantas in the early 90's. Because the tape is 100% metal is can be polished in 10seconds to a mirror shine. Some photos are with a flash some without.

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That's it.... with a steady hand and a guide to cut the aluminium tape, they really look good ! The only other things I'd do is have any vinyl nicks professionally repaired and the vinyl re dyed to give a newish appearance.

.......back to the beaver panel


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:32 am
Posts: 35
Location: Sydney Australia tollerating the intollerant.
John, that tape is still available today! my uncle who used to work for quantas gave my old man some in the 80 s, and i thought it was amazing...but i still buy it today from my local paint supplier for 20 bucks!

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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:47 am
Posts: 68
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Bloody brilliant John! i always wondered how to fix the trims like these on my hb cosmo and now i have the answer,
you have given me some great ideas through this post and i thank you very much for that, long may it continue.
Hope all is well and i look forward to the next one


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:36 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
The tape is made by 3M and made in New Zealand, should be easy to find Gary :-) $20 pretty cheap, thought it would be some exorbitant price.

Minor update and probably a boring one for most people. I've started doing a lot of the small jobs that slow a car down once painted. Some of it has been covered before but it doesn't matter since I'm not 100% what I'm doing with the sedan yet. I'm going to fix the shell and then decide what to do with it, keep it, sell it, fit 10a running gear (which is what I'm inclined to do) or fit a twin dizzy 12a PP with a similar ignition to my coupe. I haven't mentioned it to my mechanic yet as he already thinks I'm nuts. I'm a sucker for NA ported Mazda's always have been. The bridge port in the coupe isn't the most practical engine so I should know better however since I spend more time looking at them rather than driving them it's no big deal really.

Most of the following is for the sedan....
Testing and assembling the coil ignition relay, the case has been freshly plated. When crimping the case make sure the case has a good connection to the earth tap.
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Ballast resistors cleaned, bracket zinc plated....
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Ignition wiring degreased, plugs changed for new ones, damaged terminals replaced, crimped soldered, yellowed plugs replaced....
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Last week I picked up a 10a oil cooler and I got another alternator to make 1 good one from 2. While there Jim showed me his yellow standard 10a coupe and the factory blue original 10a sedan. Both cars were really impressive especially the sedan. To survive so many years and still look like it does is nothing short of amazing. I've seen photos of it before but looks so much better in real life. Anyway I think the alternator came off the titanic... I had to use a cold chisel to remove one of the long screws, the rattle gun had a hard time getting the main nut off as well.
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Coming apart... the screw that holds the heatsink to the rear case snapped, seized real good !
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Heatsink was rusted through in spots so I replaced them with the ones from the other alternator which I had zinc plated. I've already covered an alternator build so no point going through all the detail again. It's here so if I sell the car the new owner knows they are getting a good alternator at least :lol: 6 diodes in the second photo, 3 are positive bias, 3 are negative bias...
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Diodes installed in one of the heatsinks, need to make sure the solder "sweats" up the side of the diodes and that the right bias diodes are installed in each heatsink. Photo 2, the titanic alternator had a good brush holder so used that... don't forget the insulator on the B+ terminal otherwise you'll have a short circuit.
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Field windings tested and then installed. The winding is tested for open and short circuit with the steel core. Photo 2, new bits and plated bits !
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New front bearing installed...
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Securing the front bearing... more fresh zinc parts Photo 2, installing a new rear bearing on the rotor.
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Photo 1 small allen key used to hold brushes in retracted position so rotor can be installed. Photo 2, rotor dropped in
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Front case screwed down and photo 2 the rebuilt alternator 8) Last check you should probably do is make sure the B+ terminal isn't shorted to the case.
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The sedan 10a cooler that was bought last week... surprisingly in very good condition, a bit of a clean and a coat of paint and it will look like new again.
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Coupe....
I sent the clutch master and slave away to be rebuilt even though they were both brand new. I suspect the fault was with the master (not holding pressure) but decided to have both fitted with a stainless steel bore and new seals. Looks like they zinc plated both of them as well. The gearbox is currently with the mechanic, no rush to get it back although I had the urge to go to the car meet up at Terry Hills today.
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More boring updates until I get the urge to finish panel beating the sedan roof or lie on the cold garage floor to install the coupes gearbox for the 3rd time.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:38 am
Posts: 23
Location: Still aboard the Deathstar with my Plasma cutter
Hey John, I re-zinced the ignition relay case on my coupe. However i never took any notice of making sure it had a good conection to the earth tap. What is the earth tap? and if it never had a good conection what would it do. I have a clicking noise from a relay in a control box under the dash on the passenger side. I'm trying do find what may be the cause of this and then read your post above.
Always learning stuff out of your build threads, keep em up !

Regards Kurt. (Mazda rx3 coupe driver,running ported N/A) 8)


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:01 pm 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Underneath one of the casing crimp points is the earth "tab" for the relay. If it's not crimped right the relay will never work.

If the relay doesn't work the ignition coils will never get the full 12v during startup (when starter motor is running, ballast resistors are bypassed). All that means is that the spark will not be as hot during startup making startup possibly harder. Also, when the engine is running (relay in it's natural position), the ignition coils are fed about 8 or 9v because there is a voltage drop across the ballast resistors.

If you're running an Rx7 electronic ignition there is no need for the relay, also the coils should be upgraded to 12v units, and the ballast resistors removed as they longer serve any purpose with the upgraded coils. I can put up some photos if you're confused because that's how my car is wired.

Not quite sure what's in the control box other than the flasher relay, would you believe I've never opened it up ! The only thing I'd check with your clicking sound is there is an earth lug off the harness which should be grounded to one of the control box mount studs. With all the painting you did inside the car the earth might be marginal.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:06 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Here's a bit more info as to what I did (same as using an Rx7 s1,2,3 electronic distributor). The S1 Rx7 has the ignitors mounted remotely to the distributor using j105 ignitors instead of j109 like the s2 and s3 Rx7). For arguments sake the rest is the same !

Pic 1, this is what you need to wire when using an Rx7 electronic distributor. Note no ballast resistors. Pic 2, I used an Rx7 coil bracket, fits perfect on an Rx3 without having to pay Rx3 prices. Note the Rx7 bracket has no provision for the white ballast resistors. The real reason for the photo is to show that this a 12V coil for use with electronic ignition. The original points coils are no good to you. One day I'll swap them over for a nicer looking pair I have... one day....
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In these photos you'll see there is no Ignition coil relay. What I've done is kept the thick black wire that normally goes to the coil relay. This thick black (factory) wire now feeds the coils directly. The other 2 small gauge wires that also went to the coil relay are folded back (disconnected). I've made it look all pretty and factory by using a large single spade connector like you find on other parts of the loom.
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Last set of photos show the coil wiring, nothing scary. Last photo I've used the Rx7 ignitor plugs. In case you weren't aware I had my "twin" distributors fabricated to use use the Rx7 components.
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I've been doing bits and pieces on the sedan but haven't really accomplished anything. I started on the roof again, then on a used boot lid, then I decided to use the genuine new one I have, then did a little work on the headlight bezels before I decided to repair all the doors. In between all that I was tempted to pull apart the gearbox for new bearings and a rear seal :lol:

So it starts with the drivers door, the car still has the original doors so I thought I may as well have a go repairing them before replacing. .....jewel green test coat, too drab for my liking, reminds me of skivvies and cardigans ! I run a grinder around the edge of the door to remove the old skin.
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Skin removed.... It needs a some basic rust repair partly at the bottom, nothing complex though.
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Photos to remind me of how things go back together.. X marks where the factory taped over holes....
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A few more X marks in Pic 1.... Photo 2, I removed the lower door hinge reinforcement so the door can be 100% cleaned of surface rust. Not as bad as it looked. Some parts that arrived recently, someone was cutting up a Rx3 so grabbed the gearbox mounts and front strengthening panel (still need opposite side)..... thanks Mr B !
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The door shell and a few things will be dropped off to the sand blaster so I can start making some real progress. ......AND yes I have a new set of genuine Mazda door skins to go on.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:37 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Another update, a few more reference photos of the doors.

More door skin removal and noting where nuts and bolts belong before being sent away for zinc plating.
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Reference photos of nuts and bolts...
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... bolt reference and another skin coming off
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Front right door photos..... X marks factory tape
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Grinding the drivers door skin edges for removal. This is probably the worst of the doors. They should be easy to repair, if not I'm sure I can find others. The lower hinge support bracket has been removed like the passenger side. Over time the front door shells seem to bend around that area. Removing the support lets me address the surface rust, straighten the shell and then temper the steel to help prevent it happening again. Last photo, all 4 shells are ready to be sent for sand blasting. When they come back they will be repaired and primed then fitted with new genuine skins.
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My builds have slowed right down for a variety of reasons, one of them being while searching for some Mazda parts I stumbled across a couple of old looking boxes of hobbies I was into as a kid from the early 80's. A barn find in my own house ! Most of this stuff is nostalgic and from Japan so sort of fits in here.

These are original 80's Tamiya Frog and Fox RC cars. The Frog is a 10/10 and escaped use, the other is a 9/10. I had a habit even back then of buying a few spares which is why I have a couple of new original shells. Funnily enough Tamiya have re released some of these cars which are based on the originals except with some of the original design faults fixed. I also found a couple of other cars (4wd drives) from the mid to late eighties but they aren't in as nice condition. One of those cars has some sort after bits and pieces.
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From what I can gather some people object to some of these kits but I'm not one of them. I recall as a kid, must have been around 80,81 maybe 82 standing in a toy shop and seeing a couple of RC cars that I really wanted. One of those was a Baja style VW beetle called the Sand Scorcher. At $400 just for the kit they were awfully expensive back then. Well I discovered recently that some of these original kits have been remade (with some improvements) so I couldn't help myself :-) The first is based on a car called the Rough Rider, the second is based on the Super Champ. What interests me is the torsion spring style setups just the real car they are based on.
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So I dug a little deeper into the boxes and found a couple of old slot cars. Again we used to run these on special tracks at a place in Parramatta in the 80's. I'm not sure if the place still exists. When I told my brother he says we have to get all this stuff going again. He's pretty keen to go to a slot car track, I'm not sure if the place in Parramatta is open but apparently there's somewhere in Marrickville. I also found a couple of my old RC planes, my Pitts Special has finally been put to rest but the other is OK and has been given to a friend to sort out. I will probably be flying that one again out Wisemans Ferry way to get re acquainted with the hobby. Finding this stuff is like being a kid all over again :-)
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....anyway back to the Mazda

I've been collecting bits and pieces as things come up. I'm a little confused what engine to stick in it. I'll be building a stock 10a but want to fit something else before that goes in. One part of me says to fit a mildly ported 12a single distributor Rx3 engine, the other says to fit a twin distributor 12a PP with an aiuto 85 Rx7 rotating assembly I have. Big difference between the engines.

Sorting out the seat belts for refurbishment, and I want to make some silk screen prints of the original print on the coils that were in the car.
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More bits to the puzzle...
Twin distributor side housings that I got cheap with no measurable wear for the imaginery PP. Also some distributors that I'll have converted to electronic like my bridge port 10a. Always like something different. Turbos are good but I'd rather have an engine like that in something that handles better than a 70's Mazda. I'm a sucker for the NA sound. I stumbled across a 24 spline LSD for the car by accident that said buy me :-)
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Here's the other option, a sensible Rx3 12a. These housings are incredibly hard to find with perfect chrome, they were cheap and too good to pass up ! Seond photo, 12a TD Rx3 end tanks from the USA. Savanna's i assume use the same radiator. I compared these to the 10a radiator and found they are identical, the side brackets are soldered in a slightly different position. I also got the original oil hose brackets, another nice find.
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Decisions, decisions.... might have to run a poll


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:32 am
Posts: 35
Location: Sydney Australia tollerating the intollerant.
if theres a poll, ad the option "sell early 12a housings to Dave for his capella.

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Mazda RX5. fat, slow and expensive!


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:20 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 101
Location: sydney NSW
G&D slotcar track closed along time ago. Still the one at Hornsby and I think at Penrith maybe.

I had my RC cars out only a month ago. I'm keen for my boy to play with them and pull them apart lots of fun.

As kids we must have been standing in the same room many times lol

12a at least


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:48 pm 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Dave my dream Mazda has always been a 12a Rx3 coupe, they never come up at the right time and I always only see 10a ones when I'm looking. Do you know how hard those are to find, you couldn't find them 10 years ago !

Ontrack, yes that's the slot car place. It was on top of a shop on Church St, we used to go there on school holidays. Lot's of fun, those cars were seriously fast. I reckon I must of been the guy that used to always beat you :lol: small world. The place was a time warp when I was a kid, not surprised it's gone. Let me guess on what else you would have got up to when you were a little older, racing down the Galston Gorge by any chance ? My young nephew has challenged me in month to a race when he saw the cars. I'm not sure whether to be good uncle or bad uncle yet :lol: I'll get the 2 4wds going at least so they can have some fun....

Look what I found, thank god I was way too young to have a mullet, moustache, ear rings or any sense of style. Got to laugh at these guys spend thousands comment, talk about the media exaggerating. I instantly recognised the old guy with the glasses, think he was the owner. Sort of a shame it's gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApHd4lWRmI4

I can't see the options to run a poll.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:00 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Australia
There was a dodgy old place above the shops at Caringbah in the Shire in the 80's/early 90's, it was a real throwback. I used to go there on a Monday night sometimes with a couple of mates, it was cheap to hire cars, and seriously we were often the only ones there so a 15 minute hire could just turn into an hour, the guy was like "you might as well just keep going there's nobody else here". Bit sad really, it shut down, no surprises.

There was another place ina big industrial unit out near Ingleburn too I think early/mid 90's, big place, had drag cars, and a big track with those crazy fast cars, were they called Flexi Womps or Super Womps or something????
http://mrslotcar.com.au/race/showthread.php?t=2070
http://www.ingleburn.com.au/listing/slo ... ay/492551/

I've got an Aurora AFX set, kiddy stuff really, but they are still fun :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:12 am 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
I had the same AFX set........ long time ago, it's also long gone !

The place in Parramatta probably holds interest because I used to go there with a group of friends. It was most likely long over due to close down even in the eighties. It would be near impossible to have a business like that the way rents are these days. The youtube video is pretty much as I remember it.

That club you showed me out west I think is worth a visit. I can't find the email :?

Poll now up.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:55 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:31 pm
Posts: 101
Location: sydney NSW
Well holly crap. I could name at least half a dozen people in that YouTube clip. Dam I must be old.


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:02 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Adelaide
I have a "Hornet" RC car somewhere I reckon...Anytime Baby!
Ahh the 80's..."Wild Willy", "Fox", "Grasshopper", "Hotshot", "Monster Beetle", "Frog"...

Gotta love the slotties, my mates and I still play with the AFX stuff.
Here's a pic of the track we set up in the shed...it's only half of what's there due to space.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:33 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:32 am
Posts: 64
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia
Couple nice old Tamiya's there John. :D I've got a few of the Tamiya re-releases myself, Frog, Hornet, Sand Scorcher, Boomerang, Hot Shot, Wild One and an original Monster Beetle (I really hope they re-release the Monster Beetle) and also my old Hornet which was my very first RC car bought second hand as a pile of parts but all there in a plastic bag for 80 bucks, pretty much every part of it was replaced over time.

What are the 4WD buggy's you mentioned John, not Kyosho Optima's by any chance? I've got a collection of about 16 Optima's all up including a couple NIB kits. Interestingly, Kyosho recently re-released the Scorpion from 1982 so hopefully they'll follow suit and bring back the Optima.

We had a slot car track here for a short time that I had a go at but the placed closed down after about 18 months or so.


Keith :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: 1973 Mazda Rx3
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:27 pm 
JNC Enthusiast

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Australia
Nice slot car setup, unfortunately for me I don't really collect anything anymore ! I gotten rid of so much stuff in the past 12 months it's not funny.

Keith, the 4wds I have are 2 thunder dragons, nothing special other than one has a Technigold motor. I also have a very early 90s Castrol Celica 4wd that's still sitting in the original box unbuilt. It's the type that Carlos Sainz won a world title in, I liked the graphics more than anything. The Kyosho stuff was out of my price range back then, very expensive compared to the Tamiya cars. I was half thinking about getting the Sand Scorcher but don't want to start collecting model cars, The 2 I now have have got it out of my system.

I'm going to make one good 10a carb from 2, one last trip to the electro platers before I can post anything on that. The poll is interesting, I was half considering a 1600 piston engine for the sedan just so I can have one go anywhere car without any rotary headaches. There seems to be no love for the old 808 piston cars. Seems not many people share my thoughts !


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