#
It is currently Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:29 am


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 14 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: Stripped down "track ready" FT-86 rumored
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:50 pm 
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:41 pm
Posts: 5591
Location: LA
http://jalopnik.com/5432122/report-toyo ... eady-ft+86

_________________
Tyler wrote:
How I long for a shit brown wagon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Worst Covina
I can't afford two new cars! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:57 am
Posts: 535
Location: Strasburg, VA
wait, let me get this straight.. the "track package" is actually cheaper AND has less stuff? who thought of this BRILLIANT idea!

cause the idiots at every other car company did NOT.. who needs navigation and leather along with power windows and a sunroof for a track package? wtf..


ok.. sunroof is needed. haha. j/k. but seriously, most "track" packages are a joke. yeah, you get the better suspension, 6 speed manual, LSD, but you also have to get keyless entry, upgraded sound system, bigger (unneccessarily) wheels and tires, leather seats with integrated heaters, HID head lights etc...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:54 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
Stripped down track editions don't fit the template for selling cars. Consumers, even though they continually buy image over substance, equate speed with worth. And automakers know that they have to create a pricing scale where the slowest car in a range is the cheapest, and the fastest is the most expensive. If the pricing scale doesn't match that, either the consumers are confused and buy something else, or they do not buy the most expensive slower car in the model range.

Also, they know they need to saddle the most expensive model with all the heavy, high markup luxury items, because consumers expect to have all the bells and whistles with the most expensive car in the range.

So we end up with a conflict. The fastest car has to be the most expensive one. And the most expensive one has to have all the heavy luxury items loaded into it. The result is what we have: bloated performance cars.

I remember going into a Nissan dealership when the 350Z first came out, and a salesman wouldn't stop pestering me. So I asked him this "How much for the car if you take all of the interior out, leave the GPS (no Garmin at that time), I want the big brakes, remove the AC, take out all the seats? I'll bring my own racing seat and install it in the car when I take possession of it and drive it away. And I want $2,000 so I can take those Lego-Land door handles out and replace them with something that looks decent."
The salesman left me alone after that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Worst Covina
JT, I like you. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 5:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:58 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Seattle WA USA
E-AT_me and JT191, you two obviously haven't been to your local Hyundai dealer recently. The Genesis Coupe 2.0 R-spec is basically the top-of-the-line 2.0Track model: 2.0 turbo motor and track-tuned suspension, minus a lot of extras that add weight. It's 68 lbs lighter and starts at $23,750, well under the price of the 2.0Track.

You say it won't work, it creates a conflict because most people equate price with speed. And yet they're doing it. That's because they're not aiming the R-spec (and one would assume the stripped down FT-86) at "most people." They're aiming it at you. And me. And everyone else who reads forums and blogs like this who understand that weight is the enemy.

_________________
Image
My JNC: 1983 Subaru GL wagon
My JNM: 1979 Yamaha XS Eleven


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
Lincoln Stax wrote:
E-AT_me and JT191, you two obviously haven't been to your local Hyundai dealer recently. The Genesis Coupe 2.0 R-spec is basically the top-of-the-line 2.0Track model: 2.0 turbo motor and track-tuned suspension, minus a lot of extras that add weight. It's 68 lbs lighter and starts at $23,750, well under the price of the 2.0Track.

You say it won't work, it creates a conflict because most people equate price with speed. And yet they're doing it. That's because they're not aiming the R-spec (and one would assume the stripped down FT-86) at "most people." They're aiming it at you. And me. And everyone else who reads forums and blogs like this who understand that weight is the enemy.


The beginning of the thread describes trim level of a car that has not even been introduced, but with better suspension than standard, without all the luxury items, and at a lower price.

The example of a Hyundai Genesis lacks some relevance in the context presented.
The Genesis 2.0 Track is not the highest trim level of Genesis. The Genesis 3.8 Track IS the highest trim level of Genesis.
The 2.0 Track and the 2.0 R-Spec both have the SAME Brembo brakes, 19 inch wheels, Torsen differential, and "sport" suspension (according to the Hyundai website).
The Hyundai 2.0 R-Spec deletes the cruise control, trip computer, blue tooth, and steering wheel audio controls. The 2.0 Track has the addition of hid headlights, fog lights, rear spoiler, aero wiper blades, and aluminum pedals. Everything else is the same between the two vehicles: Infinity premium sound system, mp3/ipod connector, power sunroof, keyless entry, AC, tilt wheel.
It is inaccurate to describe the 2.0 R-Spec as a track prepared car, or a stripped down racing version.
It is also inaccurate to describe a 68 pound difference in vehicle weight, with the identical power output from identical engines, with identical transmissions, on identical suspensions, as making any significant difference in the performance between the two vehicles.

Also, keep in mind that this is a whopping 68 pounds on a vehicle with a curb weight of 3,300 pounds. Once you put oil, antifreeze, brake fluid, and gasoline into it, it's going to weigh 3,400+, and an adult human in the driver's seat, maybe 3,600. That's without loading a bunch of crap into the trunk. 68 pounds comes to 1.8 percent of the total weight. A real track version would have to drop ten percent of its weight before it amounted to anything serious. We're talking rear seating that does not have cushions or molded plastic side panels, no parcel shelf, crank handles on the door windows, etc. Not the difference between blue tooth or no blue tooth.
And starting out with a curb weight under 2,400 pounds would be a good idea if anyone wanted to actually keep a straight face when describing their car as "lite weight".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:44 am 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:57 am
Posts: 535
Location: Strasburg, VA
do not pee in my glass and call it lemonade..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:09 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:57 pm
Posts: 8523
Location: Arlington, TX, USA
JT191, what about the Lancer Evolution IX "RS"? It was cheaper, lighter, and had some of the things you mentioned (deleted trunk trim, deleted radio, minimal interior, 80+ pounds lighter).

I agree with you original assessment, but there have been a handful of cars sold "the right way". But it's definitely not enough of them. :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:13 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:57 pm
Posts: 8523
Location: Arlington, TX, USA
And I've always wanted to post this for JT191's benefit... :wink:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:29 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
datsunfreak wrote:
what about the Lancer Evolution IX "RS"?


As much as I like the Lancer and the body cleanup done with the Evo IX, C&D's website lists the RS at 3291 pounds. Rumorpedia says it's 60 pounds lighter. Even if it is actually 80 pounds, that's 2.3% before adding in the weight of the fluids, driver, etc.

Impreza and Lancer grew from mid weight 2600 pound compact sedans to porkers long ago and take the opposite approach to performance: add more horsepower. They do that well and make wonderful sledge hammers, but nothing about them is lite weight.

The only people actually succeeding at lite weight are Lotus, Ariel, and Mini. The Japanese have tried and failed many times to emulate Lotus. As much as they love the original Mini, you would think they could succeed with their own take on the new Mini.


Last edited by jt191 on Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:30 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:57 pm
Posts: 8523
Location: Arlington, TX, USA
JT191 wrote:
The only people actually succeeding at lite weight are Lotus, Ariel, and Mini. The Japanese have tried and failed many times to emulate Lotus. As much as they love the original Mini, you would think they could succeed with their own take on the new Mini.


x2 :tu:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:23 am
Posts: 167
Location: bolsa
I hope this happens.....gonna break the piggy bank for this!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:17 am 
JNC Fanatic
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:10 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: Boston, Assachusetts
That FT-86 is hot.. now, let's see if Nissan's 2011(supposed) Silvia is even hotter. :)

_________________
1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 14 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
610nm Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net