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 Post subject: Are they "wannbe's" or what?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:28 pm 

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 310
Location: Atlanta, GA
I run into people on occasion that are hell bent on insisting their Civic EF is an old school car. I just can't imagine this car being considered OS. Most of the people can only cite one reason: because they can get an antique tag for the car.

I posted here for a group question as it isn't a technical Honda query. What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Are they "wannbe's" or what?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
qdseeker wrote:
I run into people on occasion that are hell bent on insisting their Civic EF is an old school car. I just can't imagine this car being considered OS. Most of the people can only cite one reason: because they can get an antique tag for the car.

I posted here for a group question as it isn't a technical Honda query. What do you guys think?


You really want to revisit this topic again?

qdseeker wrote:
I couldn't imagine any car built in the '90's old school.


1991 Eagle Talon TSi - Kickin' It Old School
http://www.modified.com/features/modp-0 ... index.html

1993 Acura Integra - The New Old School
http://www.modified.com/features/modp-0 ... index.html

The Obscure One - Old School Shoot Out - 1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
http://www.modified.com/features/0604_s ... index.html

Lien On Z - Old School Shoot Out - 1990 Nissan 300ZX Turbo
http://www.modified.com/features/0604_s ... index.html

Old School Shootout - 90's Superchargers
http://www.modified.com/events/0604_scc ... index.html

1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX - Old-School Bully
http://www.modified.com/uscc/0412_sccp_ ... index.html



At some point, the zealots are going to have to realize that they don't own the definition of old school, and that as every year passes, everything increases in age. It's not a concrete time period with a set beginning and end date. Time passed and newer stuff got older, end of story.

I for one am not going to wait for the chrome bumper crowd to die off before I state proudly that I am nostalgic for and truly enjoy all of my plastic bumper, fuel injected, airbag disabled cars, equally as much as my chrome bumpered, carburetted, steel-death-dash equipped cars.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Not really... well kinda, since they were made in '88(87 in Japan). I had an 85 Civic hatchee... and I consider it old school, because 1) you really don't see em anymore 2) they were made from 84-87(83 in Japan).

Now, I say the EF is not really old school... because I have an S13, made from 89-94 in the US, (87-98+ for the 180sx?) and most don't, even though it started in the late 80's, consider the S13 old school.

Here are a few 80s-90s crossover Japanese cars, that should also be considered old school if the EF Civic is:

89-94 S13 Nissan 240sx
88-92 AE92 Corolla/Corolla SR5 and GTS
86-92 Toyota Supra
89-92 Mitsubishi Galant/Galant VR4
89-94 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon(not really Japanese, since ALL DSMs were made in Normal,Ill... NO such thing as a JDM Eclipse) :P
89-92 Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage
87-90 Toyota Tercel
88-91 Honda CRX(I guess it's an EF, too) :)
87-90 Nissan Pulsar NX coupe
85-92 Subaru GL,DL, Loyale
89-94 Subaru Legacy
89-94 Nissan Maxima
86-90 Acura Legend
89-92 Toyota Cressida

Now, these cars were also made around the same time as the EF Civic. If certain people think they meet the criteria as old school, so be it. :wink:

_________________
1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


Last edited by KresSlyda180 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are they "wannbe's" or what?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:29 pm 

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 310
Location: Atlanta, GA
JT191 wrote:
qdseeker wrote:
I run into people on occasion that are hell bent on insisting their Civic EF is an old school car. I just can't imagine this car being considered OS. Most of the people can only cite one reason: because they can get an antique tag for the car.

I posted here for a group question as it isn't a technical Honda query. What do you guys think?


You really want to revisit this topic again?


I posted the topic, yes? If you don't like it or want to delve into it, move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Are they "wannbe's" or what?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
qdseeker wrote:
JT191 wrote:
You really want to revisit this topic again?


I posted the topic, yes? If you don't like it or want to delve into it, move on.


The last time you brought up this topic, you could not support your position in the discussion.

Based on the fact that you could not get past the first seven words of the first response to your revisiting the topic, it looks like this thread is going to end the same way. I'm more than happy to delve into it with the same enthusiasm and seriousness as last time. But if the sole support of your position remains "Because gdseeker says so", you might be the one who wants to move on.

Any response to the post content after those first seven words?

JT191 wrote:
qdseeker wrote:
I couldn't imagine any car built in the '90's old school.


1991 Eagle Talon TSi - Kickin' It Old School
http://www.modified.com/features/modp-0 ... index.html

1993 Acura Integra - The New Old School
http://www.modified.com/features/modp-0 ... index.html

The Obscure One - Old School Shoot Out - 1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
http://www.modified.com/features/0604_s ... index.html

Lien On Z - Old School Shoot Out - 1990 Nissan 300ZX Turbo
http://www.modified.com/features/0604_s ... index.html

Old School Shootout - 90's Superchargers
http://www.modified.com/events/0604_scc ... index.html

1994 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX - Old-School Bully
http://www.modified.com/uscc/0412_sccp_ ... index.html



At some point, the zealots are going to have to realize that they don't own the definition of old school, and that as every year passes, everything increases in age. It's not a concrete time period with a set beginning and end date. Time passed and newer stuff got older, end of story.

I for one am not going to wait for the chrome bumper crowd to die off before I state proudly that I am nostalgic for and truly enjoy all of my plastic bumper, fuel injected, airbag disabled cars, equally as much as my chrome bumpered, carburetted, steel-death-dash equipped cars.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:58 pm 
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I also forgot to mention these '80s to '90s crossover cars, too...

87-91 Toyota Camry
86-89 Honda Accord(I consider it more of an old school car than the EF, simply because there are alot less, driving around. Also, it went from 86-89... and changed it's bodystyle, once it began the 90 model year)
86-89 Acura Integra( I consider it more old school than the EF... it being a 1st gen, not too many on the street... bodystyle changed in 90)
88-92 Mazda MX-6
88-92 Mazda 626
86-92 Mazda RX-7(same production run as the MkIII 86-92 Toyota Supra)

On a side note, as far as old school goes... compare these cars to the Fox body Mustang(79-93) and the 3rd gen Camaro(82-92). These cars began their production run, well before many JNCs. Yet their bodystyles went thru the beginning of the 90's. The 2nd gen Fox body Mercury Capri(Mustang's rarer twin, 79-86) ended it's production in the 80's... and IS a classic.

Some people consider those cars classics, some don't. Personally, I consider them both old school... they've been around long enough to be called that. :wink:

_________________
1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


Last edited by KresSlyda180 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Are they "wannbe's" or what?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Posts: 8524
Location: Arlington, TX, USA
JT191 wrote:
At some point, the zealots are going to have to realize that they don't own the definition of old school, and that as every year passes, everything increases in age. It's not a concrete time period with a set beginning and end date. Time passed and newer stuff got older, end of story.

I for one am not going to wait for the chrome bumper crowd to die off before I state proudly that I am nostalgic for and truly enjoy all of my plastic bumper, fuel injected, airbag disabled cars, equally as much as my chrome bumpered, carburetted, steel-death-dash equipped cars.



:tu:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:01 pm 
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CB7 Accord and BA3 Prelude gets no love? :P

KresSlyda180 wrote:
Here are a few 80s-90s crossover Japanese cars, that should also be considered old school if the EF Civic is:

89-94 S13 Nissan 240sx
88-92 AE92 Corolla/Corolla SR5 and GTS
86-92 Toyota Supra
89-92 Mitsubishi Galant/Galant VR4
89-94 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon(not really Japanese, since ALL DSMs were made in Normal,Ill... NO such thing as a JDM Eclipse) :P
89-92 Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage
87-90 Toyota Tercel
88-91 Honda CRX(I guess it's an EF, too) :)
87-90 Nissan Pulsar NX coupe
85-92 Subaru GL,DL, Loyale
89-93 Subaru Legacy
89-94 Nissan Maxima
86-90 Acura Legend
89-92 Toyota Cressida

Now, these cars were also made around the same time as the EF Civic. If certain people think they meet the criteria as old school, so be it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:12 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
CB7 Accord and BA3 Prelude gets no love? :P

KresSlyda180 wrote:
Here are a few 80s-90s crossover Japanese cars, that should also be considered old school if the EF Civic is:

89-94 S13 Nissan 240sx
88-92 AE92 Corolla/Corolla SR5 and GTS
86-92 Toyota Supra
89-92 Mitsubishi Galant/Galant VR4
89-94 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon(not really Japanese, since ALL DSMs were made in Normal,Ill... NO such thing as a JDM Eclipse) :P
89-92 Dodge Colt/Mitsubishi Mirage
87-90 Toyota Tercel
88-91 Honda CRX(I guess it's an EF, too) :)
87-90 Nissan Pulsar NX coupe
85-92 Subaru GL,DL, Loyale
89-93 Subaru Legacy
89-94 Nissan Maxima
86-90 Acura Legend
89-92 Toyota Cressida

Now, these cars were also made around the same time as the EF Civic. If certain people think they meet the criteria as old school, so be it.

I forgot the 88-91 Prelude... the CB7 Accord DEFINITELY not, old school. That car was made in the 90's. Plus every ricer and their father owns one. I see like 20 of them drive by my street everyday. :lol:

I think the EF Civic is more old school than that. :wink:

_________________
1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


Last edited by KresSlyda180 on Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:04 pm
Posts: 369
Location: Malaysia
i think it safe to say, any cars above 25 years should be considered as classics, this is what most communities would regard it as about

i guess that applies for JNC cars above 25 years.

and also any cars above 50 years are known as vintage, so those peeps owning a 1960s car and above would be classed as a vintage JNC right? hahah, those old fairlady gets the tags then

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1987 Nissan Fairlady Z31 200ZG with RB20DET


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:27 pm 
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kev84 wrote:
i think it safe to say, any cars above 25 years should be considered as classics, this is what most communities would regard it as about

i guess that applies for JNC cars above 25 years.

and also any cars above 50 years are known as vintage, so those peeps owning a 1960s car and above would be classed as a vintage JNC right? hahah, those old fairlady gets the tags then

I consider my S12 87 200sx a true classic, because...

1) it began it's bodystyle run in 84(83 in Japan)
2) the design went from 84-88 in the US
3) you don't see many of them around anymore
4) Along with the 81-84 Maxima, and 84-89 Z31 300zx... it was one of the last of the TRUE Rwd Datsuns to be produced for the US. All 3 of them wore Datsun emblems along with their new Nissan emblems... at least, the 84 200sx and 300zx did. I think the Maxima wore just Datsun in 81 and 82... and Nissan/Datsun in 83-84.

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1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:36 pm 
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I can see this thing getting out of control (like last time), so I'm moving it.

Keep it nice and civil or it goes bye-bye. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:38 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
I can see this thing getting out of control (like last time), so I'm moving it.

Keep it nice and civil or it goes bye-bye. 8)

I'm glad I wasn't in the last discussion... was it that bad? :lol:

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1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:13 pm 
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KresSlyda180 wrote:
was it that bad? :lol:


These things never end well. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:53 pm 

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:18 am
Posts: 310
Location: Atlanta, GA
datsunfreak wrote:
I can see this thing getting out of control (like last time), so I'm moving it.

Keep it nice and civil or it goes bye-bye. 8)


I doubt it will. You can delete this if you want. I'm out of the "e-thugging" game.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
kev84 wrote:
i think it safe to say, any cars above 25 years should be considered as classics, this is what most communities would regard it as about

i guess that applies for JNC cars above 25 years.


OK, that is going to imply that nostalgic includes cars that are not classic or less than 25 years old. But that does not agree with some other moderator opinions/comments.
That becomes another difficult definition. Nostalgic Hero sets a hard cutoff of 1979, not an age based definition.
And there is no stated definition outside discussions.

Old school is even more vague. The phrase is a negative that depends on the opposite term for its definition. So what's New School? That would be current, state-of-the-art, the latest, or new.
Look at the demographic funding all of this. Everyone wants the 18-25 year olds, because they have the money to spend and no wife or children to keep them from spending all that money on cars and mens toys. These are people who were not born or not old enough to have much of a memory the world before 1995.
That's age group is who the import and performance culture/lifestyle magazines are trying to attract. And what cars are getting written up in articles or are in the large advertisements from parts companies? Current models, and cars that are five or six years old. The exceptions are some that might still be of interest to these young people.
Look at the shows and events. Bikini contests, burnout contests, and currently popular music. It's not a VH1 crowd or VH1 entertainment, not the music you would have heard when 15 and 20 year old cars were rolling out of the dealerships.
So New School is under ten years old. There is no Middle School. The rest becomes very plausibly Old School.

Going a little further, SCCA Touring class club (circuit) racing, and Rally America, both place age restrictions on participant vehicles.
Quote:
Touring Category Classes are intended to provide the Membership with the opportunity to compete in commonly-available, recently-produced
automobiles in as near the legal, street-driven form of those automobiles
as is practically and safely possible under racing circumstances.
...
b. Cars will be eligible for competition from the time they are classified until the end of the tenth calendar year of competition of the latest model year listed on the specification line.

That lends a little more to New School being ten years and under, and everything above that being something other than New School.


I've said before that I never had anything that was in style, fashionable, or popular. Possibly never New School if being embraced by the media or public as a whole is part of being New School.

I'll throw out some reasons to support this.

I'm working on a 1991 four door compact car. (I actually have several of this specific car and an additional one that I am responsible for the care of is owned by another family member). Make and model is unimportant. The car was made from 1989/1990 through 1992/1993 (production year vs. model year). Replacement parts from the dealership became difficult to get around 2002, and by 2007, I had a growing list of discontinued parts. By 2009, my default setting had evolved to sit down and draw the broken part in autocad and talk to the machinist about having the replacement part made from scratch. In effect, my normal maintenance routine is now the same as if I were trying to keep a Model A running as a daily driver, but rarer, as if the Model A I was trying to maintain is the only one left in existence. And add the complexity of dealing with electronics, plastics, computer designed parts, and trying to replicate modern manufacturing techniques.

For the last four years, I have been trying to find quarter panels and floor panels to repair rust. Every car I have found within 500 miles is rusted worse than what I am trying to repair. This year's Christmas Miracle is that one of these cars showed up at the local salvage yard, and it has less rust than the cars that I am trying to repair. Thursday, 40 degrees and raining, and I was in the salvage yard for six hours removing all pieces to allow cutting the panels out of the junked vehicle. Friday, 40 degrees, I rented a saw and generator, cut both quarter panels, both B pillars, and the right front A pillar out of the vehicle and bought them. It took the whole day. Saturday, 30 degrees and raining, and I was back at the salvage yard pulling and buying spindles and axles, buying the rear bumper, tail lights, assorted plastic panels, and then preparing the engine to be pulled. Today, 20 degrees, snow, 30 MPH wind, and everything is closed for the snow storm. Monday it is going to be 20 degrees, and I will have to go back to hoist the engine and buy it.


Now, I may be a little sensitive to the chrome bumper and carburetor crowd, with all the comments about which cars are nostalgic or old school and which cars are not. But I think I'm entitled to that. Because I am going through as much, if not more, with the cars that I work on in the 15-25 year old age group, as I or anyone else do with cars in the 40+ year age group. In fact, I will say without hesitation that if I had not already been well trained with having to design and build my own replacement parts for the pre-classic cars, I would be completely unprepared and helpless with working on and dealing with the problems of a 40+ year old cars.

And I'll add that I dream about something easy like finding parts and information for a Hakosuka or a Cosmo, because if the owners of those cars went through what I do just to keep these 1991 cars going, they would have given up long ago and bought Priuses or bus passes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:44 pm 
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JT191 wrote:
I'm working on a 1991 four door compact car. (I actually have several of this specific car and an additional one that I am responsible for the care of is owned by another family member). Make and model is unimportant. The car was made from 1989/1990 through 1992/1993 (production year vs. model year). Replacement parts from the dealership became difficult to get around 2002, and by 2007, I had a growing list of discontinued parts.


I think what it is, is very important. My daily driver is a 1990 model. It was built from '90-93, and is super easy to get parts for. A lot of times with cars from the late 80s/early 90s, the problem is what it is, not how old it is.

I said that to say this, if you're wrenching on a car with zero aftermarket support (or that they sold low numbers of), it doesn't matter whether it's 6 years old or 60 years old.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
Location: Midwest, USA
datsunfreak wrote:
JT191 wrote:
I'm working on a 1991 four door compact car. (I actually have several of this specific car and an additional one that I am responsible for the care of is owned by another family member). Make and model is unimportant. The car was made from 1989/1990 through 1992/1993 (production year vs. model year). Replacement parts from the dealership became difficult to get around 2002, and by 2007, I had a growing list of discontinued parts.


I think what it is, is very important. My daily driver is a 1990 model. It was built from '90-93, and is super easy to get parts for. A lot of times with cars from the late 80s/early 90s, the problem is what it is, not how old it is.

I said that to say this, if you're wrenching on a car with zero aftermarket support (or that they sold low numbers of), it doesn't matter whether it's 6 years old or 60 years old.


You understand the point, and that being that there are cars under 25 years old that are as difficult or more difficult to deal with as cars that are twice as old or older. And there are more than a few cars that fit this situation.

A 80's or early 90's Honda Civic would be significantly less difficult. But it is the same age group as what I am dealing with. And if the example Honda Civic is brushed aside as unworthy based solely on the date, then what I am dealing with is brushed aside as well, before even getting to the headaches, nightmares, and ulcers that make a 40+ year old, obscure, recognized classic look easy.

This is why I object so strongly to the age based definitions or a check list of chrome bumpers and carburetors as a definition.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:38 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
KresSlyda180 wrote:
was it that bad? :lol:


These things never end well. :P

Yikes! Kinda like a frog trying to swim across a lake full of piranhas. :lol:

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1987 Nissan "Datsun" S12 200sx XE notch
1981 Toyota Te72 Corolla
1983 Toyota Ae72 Corolla


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