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 Post subject: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:59 am 
Cruising some old school Japanese car blog and came across this jaw dropper. I am really in love with the GC10, and havent made ant decisions yet on what I will be purchasing, but I have to research this car more. The car obviously has some work done. Shaved door handles make that obvious. The body line is just drop dead gorgeous. And the cleanliness of the front end makes me wonder just HOW much work this thing has had.

Any info you guys can throw my way would be great.

Thanks

Image

Not a huge fan of the wheels chosen for this car, but that is easily fixable ;) I am digging the white walls though.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:35 am 
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JDM name is Mazda Luce. Overseas name is Mazda 1500 or 1800.

Very interesting background to this model. Design was by Bertone, who presented it to Alfa Romeo and the design was deemed too expensive to make (they eventually went with a more square looking design), so Mazda picked it up.

I think it's just had a shave, and not really much work done besides that. Those Italian lines don't need much augmentation :D

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:05 am 
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Not sure how this ended up in the Datsun garage, but moved it to the proper spot. :tu:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:08 am 
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kev wrote:
Very interesting background to this model. Design was by Bertone, who presented it to Alfa Romeo and the design was deemed too expensive to make (they eventually went with a more square looking design), so Mazda picked it up.


Interesting side note? Italian carmaker Lancia built a car that looks almost exactly like the Luce... :P

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Some interesting similarities there....the Lancia Fulvia wasn't a bertone design right?

But anyhoo it wouldn't be the first time the Italians designed a car for a Japanese maker and then sold a slightly similar design to a Euro manufacturer:

http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/20 ... upermodel/

..and :lol:
http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/20 ... by-zagato/

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:40 pm 
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kev wrote:
Some interesting similarities there....the Lancia Fulvia wasn't a bertone design right?


I believe it is Zagato. The weirdest coincidence is the rotor-shaped grill badge of the Lancia... :P


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:44 pm 
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I know that there was a Fulvia Zagato fastback coupe (lovely thing)...
Image

Image

Not 100% sure if the regular Fulvia notchback coupe was by Zagato too tho.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:58 pm 
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kev wrote:
I know that there was a Fulvia Zagato fastback coupe (lovely thing)... Not 100% sure if the regular Fulvia notchback coupe was by Zagato too tho.


Can't seem to find ANY info on who designed the sedan body... :?

I was just hopeful Zagato did both... :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Thats a sweet car. :tu:

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:53 pm 
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icapture wrote:
Cruising some old school Japanese car blog and came across this jaw dropper. I am really in love with the GC10...
Any info you guys can throw my way would be great.


Also, I do believe the Luce can be had cheaper than the GC10. :tu:


And if you want to see how much work was done to that car, here's a stocker to compare it to. 8)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tion01.JPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:52 pm 

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Lancia Fulvia Zagato has a designer's name in the car name: Zagato.

Rumorpedia states:
"The Fulvia was designed by Antonio Fessia..."
It's Rumorpedia, take it with a grain of salt.

The nominations for Car Designer of the Century cite Ercole Spada as the designer of the Lancia Fulvia.

The similar Alfa Romeo is the 105/115 and Guilia models, which Rumorpedia states:
"The basic body shape shared by all models was designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro for Bertone."
Again, it's Rumorpedia...

Giugiaro was at Bertone from 1960 through 1965. The rising stars of the 1970's and later would have been trained in the top design studios of the 1960's.

Back to Rumorpedia, and what they say about the Mazda Luce:
"Following an agreement signed with Bertone in April, 1962, the 1965 Luce 1500 show car was a beautiful sedan designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro..."

One word of caution: Be very careful claiming or repeating stories about a design being rejected by one car manufacturer, shopped around, and then picked up by another car manufacturer. Automobile designers do not shop designs around. These are not widgets or appliances that designers carry from manufacturer to manufacturer in a big carpet bag, laid out on the table, and the rejected widget put back into the bag to be tried again down the street at the next manufacturer. Automobile designers are professionals who have an identifiable style. Many of their designs look similar because they are the same person who designed them. A Picaso doesn't look like a Rembrandt, and vice-versa. And if you look at a Picaso pained for one patron/customer, and compare it to a Picaso painted for another. you can tell the same person painted both. The same with car designers. And, you can see the evolution of the themes that the automobile designer is working on through a succession of his designs. This is especially apparent with the huge number of cars that Giugiaro designed as he begins with a very a-typical Italian coupe shape that is very sensuous in line, progresses to the wedge shaped aerodynamic style of the 1980's, on to more organic forms like the Cala, and now more insect shapes like the Namir. People who have no concept of what a designers does and how automakers contract jobs with designers often come up with stories about a design being rejected by one maker and picked up by another, because they do not understand that two different car makers can hire the same designer and build totally different cars which have a similar appearance. Car makers hire specific automobile designers because they want a product that reflects the designers style. Each design is specific to the chassis the car maker uses. A design built on a Brand X chassis can not be shopped to Brand Y, because Brand Y does not use or have the right to manufacture Brand X chassis. Brand Y, however, might ask the automobile designer to do something very similar for them, on their Brand Y chassis, as they did for Brand X.


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:30 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
Also, I do believe the Luce can be had cheaper than the GC10. :tu:

The Luce was a USDM model too right?

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:35 pm 
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kev wrote:
The Luce was a USDM model too right?


Not to my knowledge, no. Wikipedia says yes, but you know how reliable that is...


Last edited by john on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:38 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
kev wrote:
The Luce was a USDM model too right?


Not to my knowledge, no. Never sold here.

They were sold here, but I can't say I've seen one on the street in years and years. Most other older Mazda sedans were saved for rotary retrofits but the 1500/1800 seems to have gotten little love over the years. Shame, it's such a pretty car.

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:39 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
kev wrote:
The Luce was a USDM model too right?


Not to my knowledge, no. Never sold here.

If it were, I'd have one. 8)


hang on a second ...
i believe some 1800's sold here
they're luce chassis, aren't they?


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:41 pm 
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burabuda wrote:

hang on a second ...
i believe some 1800's sold here
they're luce chassis, aren't they?


That look like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tion01.JPG


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:42 pm 
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datsunfreak wrote:
burabuda wrote:

hang on a second ...
i believe some 1800's sold here
they're luce chassis, aren't they?


That look like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... tion01.JPG


yep. ben and i were talking about it a few months ago. might see some related feature in jnc mag in the future


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone identify this beauty for me?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:43 pm 
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burabuda wrote:
hang on a second ...
i believe some 1800's sold here
they're luce chassis, aren't they?


I think it's all the same car.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Seems you are right...

Quote:
The number of Mazda 1800 automobiles imported into the U.S. are as follows.

1970 - 1,058 Sedan - 937 Estate // 1971 - 1,020 Sedan - 1,639 Estate // 1972 - 100 Sedan - 0 Estate

A sincere thanks to Mazda Motors Co. in Japan for providing these numbers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Here's another Mazda look-a-like. The Mazda RoadPacer, and the Holden Kingswood. :wink:

Image
Image

While the Holden HJ Premier itself was well endowed with items, Mazda decided to add many more, including some people had likely never heard of. Gadgets of note include a central locking system that activated when the car hit 10 km/h (6 mph), a chime system that activated at 90 km/h (56 mph), a dictation system and a stereo able to be controlled from both front and back seats.

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