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Garant
 Post subject: Motor Fan - Sept. '71
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:14 pm 
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ahh, what a lineup!
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jt191
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:23 pm 

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ベレ-Gがありますよ!
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NSR_s30
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:41 pm 
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OoOo very nice

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Lincoln Stax
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:54 pm 
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That looks like so much fun. I'd love a translation of the article. From top to bottom, it looks like Isuzu Bellett, Nissan Bluebird, Toyota Celica, Mitsubishi Galant GTO and Mazda RX-2.

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kev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:13 pm 
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...so who won the comparison :D

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No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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RedSunday
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:25 pm 
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kev wrote:
...so who won the comparison :D


The GTO of course :D

I'd like to see the article, do you have a pic of that?

I also had no idea the rx2 was so large, I thought it was the size of a ke25/te27, havnt seen one in the flesh for some time.

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kev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Isn't it amazing how they're almost all the same size?

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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Stationwagonguy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:49 pm 

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So much win in such a small space. :lol:

Combined, they're almost as big as my '70 Chrysler. :lol:

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RedSunday
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Do we have any specs on these cars at all? I guess we can do our own comparison.

Can some one else fill in the blanks?

Izuzu
Bellet -

Datsun
510 -

Toyota
Celica -

Mitsubishi
GTO MII - 1600 sohc (4g32) 110hp @ 6700 rpm
Features - Twin SUs', 5 speed, live axel.
930kg

Mazda
RX2 - 1200 rotary (12a) 130hp @7000rpm
Features - ???
955kg

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kev
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:23 pm 
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Izuzu
Bellet -

Datsun
510 -

Toyota
Celica - 1600DOHC twin Solex, 115hp, 965kg, 16.6qtr, strut front, live axle rear

Mitsubishi
GTO MII - 1600 sohc (4g32) 110hp @ 6700 rpm
Features - Twin SUs', 5 speed, live axel.
930kg

Mazda
RX2 - 1200 rotary (12a) 130hp @7000rpm
Features -
955kg

I'll fill in more when I get home...

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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ben
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Assuming they're top spec cars, that would be

Izuzu
Bellet GTR
DOHC 1.6L, 120ps, 970kg

Datsun
510 1800SSS (?)
SOHC 1.8L, 115ps, 945kg

Toyota
Celica 1600GT
DOHC 1.6L, 115ps, 940kg

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kev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:56 am 
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Izuzu
Bellet - I think it's a GT rather than a GTR (since the bonnet ain't black) but anyway...
- 1600GTR: 1600DOHC, 120ps, 970kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator
- 1600GT: 1600 pushrod, 88ps, 935kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator, 18.2qtr

Datsun
510 - 1600SSS, 1600SOHC, twin SU carb, 100ps, 915kg, 4spd, macpherson strut front and semi trailing arm rear suspension (was there a 1800SSS?)

Toyota
Celica - 1600DOHC twin Solex, 115hp, 965kg, 16.6qtr, strut front, live axle rear

Mitsubishi
GTO MII - 1600 sohc (4g32) 110hp @ 6700 rpm
Features - Twin SUs', 5 speed, live axel, 930kg 16.5qtr

Mazda
RX2 - 1200 rotary (12a) 130hp @7000rpm
Features -
955kg

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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jt191
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:40 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 393
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kev wrote:
Isuzu
Bellet - I think it's a GT rather than a GTR (since the bonnet ain't black) but anyway...
- 1600GTR: 1600DOHC, 120ps, 970kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator
- 1600GT: 1600 pushrod, 88ps, 935kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator, 18.2qtr


The black hood paint scheme may or may not be indicative of the GTR. There are currently a lot of GTRs without the black hood paint scheme and no indication that this was not available originally in solid body color.

There were at least seven different engines:
1964-1965 1500GT - OHV 77PS
1964-1966 1600GT - OHV 88PS
1966-1968 1600GT - OHV 90PS
1968-1971 1600GT - SOHC 103PS
1968-1973 1600GTR - DOHC 120PS
1970-1973 1800GT - SOHC 115PS
1971-1973 1800GTN - SOHC 100PS

With a date of 1971, there would be four different possible engines.

The car pictured has body color trunk hinges, originally exclusive to GTR, but later on all models. The same with the black instead of chrome mirror backs. But it does not have the hood vents, so it is probably not a GTR.
For 1971 GT, 940-945kg.
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kev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:47 am 
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You know what qtr mile a 1600GTR does JT? Can't seem to find anything on my end.

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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kev
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:29 am 
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Aha....found a qtr mile time for the 1600SSS and RX2 :) Also added the retail prices too.

Isuzu
Bellet - 1800GT: 1800 OHC, 115ps, 935kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator, 18.2qtr (this is for the 88ps 69 model)
Y8.9mil

Datsun
510 - 1600SSS, 1600SOHC, twin SU carb, 100ps, 915kg, 4spd, macpherson strut front and semi trailing arm rear suspension, 17.7qtr,
Y7.6mil

Toyota
Celica - 1600DOHC twin Solex, 115hp, 965kg, 16.6qtr, strut front, live axle rear,
Y8.7mil

Mitsubishi
GTO MII - 1600 sohc (4g32) 110hp @ 6700 rpm
Features - Twin SUs', 5 speed, live axel, 930kg 16.5qtr
Y10.2mil

Mazda
RX2 - 1200 rotary (12a) 130hp @7000rpm
Features - 955kg, 16.5qtr, strut front, live rear axle with coils & trailing links.
Y8.45mil

There's actually quite a big range in terms of price and performance...discuss! :D

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.


Last edited by kev on Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Garant
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:53 am 
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RedSunday wrote:
I also had no idea the rx2 was so large, I thought it was the size of a ke25/te27, havnt seen one in the flesh for some time.

many of us forget how large the 2 really is ... and it looks to weigh the most too

okaaaaay ... sohc gto with su's edges out the dohc celica with solexes? :shock: 8)
(weighs 35kg less, but still ...)
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jt191
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:53 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 am
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kev wrote:
Isuzu Bellet - 1600GT: 1600 pushrod, 88ps, 935kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator, 18.2qtr,
Y8.9mil


The engine information was not updated in the paste over. Those are the specs for the pre-1969 car.

Isuzu Bellet - 1600GT: 1600 SOHC, 103ps, 940kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator

Or

Isuzu Bellet - 1800GT: 1800 SOHC, 115ps, 945kg, 4spd, double wishbone front and rear swing/semi-trailing arms with camber compensator
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kev
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:14 pm 
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You got it...now amended.

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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kev
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:16 pm 
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burabuda wrote:
RedSunday wrote:
I also had no idea the rx2 was so large, I thought it was the size of a ke25/te27, havnt seen one in the flesh for some time.

many of us forget how large the 2 really is ... and it looks to weigh the most too

okaaaaay ... sohc gto with su's edges out the dohc celica with solexes? :shock: 8)
(weighs 35kg less, but still ...)

Oops, I gave the performance figure for the DOHC MR version. Could that not be an MR? DOHC, 125ps twin carbs?

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datsunfreak wrote:
No Kev, you are eating a duck fetus.
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Garant
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:40 pm 
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kev wrote:
burabuda wrote:
RedSunday wrote:
I also had no idea the rx2 was so large, I thought it was the size of a ke25/te27, havnt seen one in the flesh for some time.

many of us forget how large the 2 really is ... and it looks to weigh the most too

okaaaaay ... sohc gto with su's edges out the dohc celica with solexes? :shock: 8)
(weighs 35kg less, but still ...)

Oops, I gave the performance figure for the DOHC MR version. Could that not be an MR? DOHC, 125ps twin carbs?


wah! you're supposed to make the correction after we get the celi guys into a tizzy :lol:
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