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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:24 am
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Location: Misawa Japan
Do they only tell you the last time it was registered or the entire registration history?

I was the last one to register My Hako in Japan, it has 36K kilo's on the clock, i would LOVE to see if thats really the original numbers!!
Mine was parked for 10 years when i bought it, so I guess its possible that it really has such low numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:54 pm 
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You get the last couple of annual mileage readings, I believe. But only up to a certain time limit, so for the Hako I only got the last record. So it's not enough info to determine how many times the car has been around the clock.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:24 am 
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Project Hakosuka may be many things, but one thing is for sure is that in the past 6yrs, it's certainly never been boring :D

Like the time I found a 4 inch long piece of sheetmetal floating about inside the sump...oh, wait...that was today :) I guess I better start at the beginning....
Image

This morning, I used my engine beam to raise the motor off its mount. Basically to fit new engine mounts and a new oil pickup.
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On the one side, I hook a chain to an unused bolthole on the cylinder head...
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...and on the other side I used a hole on the side of the block.
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Then slowly twist those big handles on the engine bar, and the engine rises off its mounts (which I unbolted from before). A few inches is all it needs before there's enough room to wiggle out the old mount.
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The main reason for this job in the first place, was to investigate an oil surge issue. It mainly happens on the track, where I can see the oil pressure falling in hard left hand turns. But unless the oil level is all the way full, I can reproduce the effect on a winding road taken reasonably fast. So off comes the sway bar, which is necessary to make room to slide out the sump (after its gazillion bolts have been undone)
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And straight away, I think the mystery is solved...with the sight of the oil pickup at an er, shall we say...rakish angle.
Image

You can kinda see how it would affect the oil pressure in hard turns. On right hand turns, the oil pickup acts like a scoop for any oil sloshing to the right side of the sump. But on left handers, the hat on the oil pickup acts like a shield for oil sloshing to the left, which temporarily starves the pickup of oil.

I've sourced a new pickup, specifically for Hako Skyline, from Kameari Engine Works, and what a lovely bit of gear it is.
Image

And, you can see straight away, that it's at a somewhat different angle to the pickup tube off the car :) I guess I can't be too hard on the guy who built the engine. When the motor is on an engine stand and is bolt upright, the angle of the pickup probably looks quite okay. I imagine it didn't occur to him that the L-series sits on quite a slant in a Hako.
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Next step is to make a new gasket for the Kameari pickup, which is easy to do. Just take some gasket paper, and gently tap around the pickup (use the old pickup of course!) with a ballpein hammer
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This will make an imprint on the gasket paper, and in fact will usually partially cut the holes as part of the process.
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Finish the job with a blade, and hey presto, new gasket.
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It's a good time to fit up the new engine mounts, which are much softer and fatter than the old ones.
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Slot them in place, but leave them unbolted for now...all set, right? Just button it all up and look for the nearest winding road? Well, yeah. That was the plan :)
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So I start to clean up the sump, so that I can fit up a new gasket and get it all back together. That's when I notice something rattling around inside one of the wings.
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It took a bit of wiggling to get it out, but...here we are :)
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Righto. What the hell is that doing in there.

I think the answer is this. The sump has a plate just behind the bowl, to prevent oil from sloshing to the back of the sump during acceleration. In Japan, the middle section of this plate was cut out to accommodate a really kludged up oil pickup tube which fouled against it.
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During the rebuild, a new plate of steel looks like it was welded across that gaping hole. But, it looks like the welds didn't hold and that plate of steel went for quite a tour around the inside of the engine. But rather shockingly, all I can see in the way of damage to the rotating assembly, are a couple of nicks in a few of the crank weights.
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And the odd scrape mark.
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But the bores, rods and pistons looks to have escaped unharmed. My theory is that the crank swings below the gasket line of the sump. The builder probably didn't measure things right, and shortly after the rebuild...or maybe during the rebuild, the crank hit the new steel plate and tore it free of its welds.
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The mind boggles as to how the engine is still a happy healthy running motor today. The thought of that plate getting whacked up into the bores, or sliding down into the bowl of the sump and getting sucked up into the pickup tube...thus blocking it off...is quite sobering. There's plenty of engine-kaboom scenarios which could have played out...but I reckon we've had quite a measure of blind luck here, and if the Hako sump was a conventional one, that bit of steel might have bounced around for a long time, causing more and more damage. But I think that shortly after that plate of steel came loose, got clobbered by the crankshaft and began its new life as a metal pretzel, it was sufficiently twisted that it fit into one of those holes that lead to the sump wing. And it probably never came back out again.

I suspect that this probably all happened a very long time ago, and that bit of steel has been trapped in the wing of the sump for years. You can see the witness marks on the inside of the sump as it got reshaped by the crank...
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The question now is...what do we do? (It's not a rhetorical question...if you have an opinion please do share :))
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I think that the engine is...rather amazingly...okay. The question is whether we need to reinstate that plate across the back of the sump. Naturally, I would like to hear that it's not necessary and we don't have to tempt fate again by welding something in its place. Or...would it be okay to rivet say some 2mm aluminium in its place?

Let's discuss. It's good to talk :D

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:00 am 
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Woah, lucky escape. It's like a Christmas Miracle. Gawd bless us, one and all ( etc..)

When I put a new timing chain & tensioner in my Hillman Imp I found 2 broken tensioners and a couple of lenghths of chain in the sump. Ran fine.

Nice to see updates again, ta !

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:20 am 
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kev wrote:
The mind boggles as to how the engine is still a happy healthy running motor today. The thought of that plate getting whacked up into the bores, or sliding down into the bowl of the sump and getting sucked up into the pickup tube...thus blocking it off...is quite sobering.

The question now is...what do we do? (It's not a rhetorical question...if you have an opinion please do share :))
The question is whether we need to reinstate that plate across the back of the sump. Naturally, I would like to hear that it's not necessary and we don't have to tempt fate again by welding something in its place.


I say not necessary. If you really are concerned about starvation, those walls need to surround the pickup tube down in the sump. Away from the crank weights. :P


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:08 am 
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Hey. I would source one of those handmade high-capacity aluminum sumps for the L-series. They've got extra side galleries, and a full set of - we assume anyway - appropriately sized and positioned baffles. Plus, they look damn sexy... Neko.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:30 am 
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Kuroneko wrote:
Hey. I would source one of those handmade high-capacity aluminum sumps for the L-series. They've got extra side galleries, and a full set of - we assume anyway - appropriately sized and positioned baffles. Plus, they look damn sexy... Neko.

What brand are those, Skorj? I had a look at the Kameari and Victory50 sites, and neither of them offer anything like a modded sump.

The consensus seems to be to stick it back together without any improvised baffle, so today that's what we did :)

However before I got too carried away, I measured up how the new vs old oil pickups would fit. Here's the new one:
Image

It's parallel to the floor of the sump and sits very close to the bottom
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Measurements are that the mouth of the pickup tube is 8mm off the floor of the sump.
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The old one, on the other hand, sits at an angle.
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And because the mouth of the pipe is at an angle too, the top edge of the mouth is 28mm off the sump floor, so it's much more susceptible to sucking air as the oil sloshes around.
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So I figure the new one should make it a lot better than it currently is
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Time to fit up the sump, and Baz from Datsport's tip was to apply contact glue between the sump and the gasket
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And between the gasket and the block, you apply an even smear of thick grease. The grease should remain solid and prevent leaks, and if you need to remove the sump again, the sump will drop without tearing the gasket, so you can recycle it a few times. Stewart Wilkins at SSS gave me similar advice once about sealing up a rocket cover gasket, too.
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Then it's on with the zillion bolts...the ones above the wing with the plug in it are especially hard, there is only just enough room to stand up the bolt in there, let alone get a spanner to it.
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Then lower the engine slowly until it's almost resting on the mounts. This part was easier than expected, the mounts are generously slotted, so there was plenty of wriggle room to get all the holes lined up.
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And with that, she fired up and idled just fine :) I'll go for a proper drive in the next few days and report back as to whether the oil surge is still prevalent on hard left turns.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:03 pm 
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Well the surge seemed to be largely under control if I overfilled the sump by half a liter, so 5.2L in total. I guess it's also a good thing that the car's only been around Wakefield and Marulan which don't have much in the way of proper left hand corners. Eastern Creek would be another matter entirely tho, but I never did a trackday there.

I'm in the middle of a nice morning drive now and I'd say the surge in left hand turns is sorted. I deliberately filled the sump to only 3/4 on the dipstick and have given it a pretty good go and the surge hasn't reappeared.

Image

The latest round of upgrades seem to have improved the car quite a bit too. The front end is now a lot tighter feeling and precise, and the new engine mounts have made it a lot smoother. It no longer shakes the car side to side at idle (which in hindsight was kinda a cool feature).

But I reckon there's now a cloud over the workmanship on the engine. The cylinder head was done by TK and is fine, but I reckon one of the projects for 2014 will be to pull the motor and freshen up the bottom end.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:56 am 
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Hi. I am mobile this week, so a bit difficult to pull up references, but I think this guy was either handling or referred to making them: http://craftsman.uh-oh.jp . There was a page where he was making a three gauge pod somewhere... Neko.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Thanks Skorj. I think we're good for now, I can't get the oil surge to repeat itself anymore, no matter how hard I try, so I think we're in a good place with the current arrangement. If it does raise its head on the track again, there are race shops here who can weld in baffles around the pickup in the bowl, although I would have thought that the sump is so old and the steel so contaminated with oil, that any weld wouldn't be 100% trustworthy...

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:41 am 
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Now that the engine has had so many new parts in the past few days, I figured it would be a shame not to give the car a bit of a birthday and treat her to a nice tune up. Actually I think this really is the 6th anniversary of the Hako setting sail from Japan for Australia (well, give or take a couple of days).

First I pull the plugs and install a new set of NGK BP6ES. The old ones have a nice dry colour, so nothing seems amiss. #3 has a bit of crud on it...
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...but I'd say that's because I've plumbed the return pipe from the crankcase breather into cylinder #3. I guess the catch can doesn't quite do a 100% job of scrubbing the oil mist from the crankcase vapours.
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Then some new plug leads. 6yrs ago, I was kinda grasping at straws to try to figure out why the engine wouldn't run, and so grabbed at some $6ea leads from the local parts store just as a test. Anyway, they seemed to have worked well enough since then, and I didn't actually manage to get over to Magnecor to get a nice set of custom leads made. However, nothing lasts forever, and the old leads are showing quite high resistance, most are in the 8-9 KOhm range, and a couple are 12-13 KOhm. I think I have a Toyota workshop manual somewhere that says that leads are toast when they get over 20, so they still have some life left.
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But just the same, some new leads (of the same $6 brand!) measure at 3 KOhm, so the old leads were certainly past their prime. Just changing the leads seems to have made the engine feel fresher and more crisp, I guess any big carbed and big cammed oldschool motor relies on a supersized spark to smooth over its driveability inefficiencies at low rpm, so every little bit helps. And at $30 a set, it won't hurt to throw new plug leads on every couple of years from now on.
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Then a quick check of the ignition timing to see that it's still at 12BTDC (it was...), and so we move onto the carbs. The first thing I check is the idle mixtures, which is governed by these screws here. It's an easy visual check, in that I know that the right idle mixtures on my setup are when the idle screws are 7/8s a turn away from closed. Which for carb #2 & #3, have the mixture screws at this "quarter to three" angle.
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Whereas for carb #1, the screws are at this "angry eyebrows" angle instead. So these are all fine and there's no need to fiddle.
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Next, I move onto sync'ing the 3 carbs together. They have to act in perfect unison, so they all have to be closed at precisely the same time at idle, and open at the same time when you hit the loud pedal. First step is to pop off the droplinks on 2 of the carbs.
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I leave the middle carb connected to the linkage jackshaft. The reason for this, is to disconnect the 3 carbs from each other. This way, any adjustment you make to one carb, won't pull the others out of whack.
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There are a few schools of thought as to how to sync carbs, but I like to do it this way. So I first remove the brass plug on one of the progression ports on each carb.
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You can see here that the progression ports are 3 tiny little holes, and normally that bowl is full of fuel. When you crack open the throttle off-idle, the function of the little holes is to give a little slug of enrichment to improve response. But, they are also useful as a sight-window into the position of the throttle flap. If you look really closely, you'll see the throttle flap covering the top half of the top hole.
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Repeat this check on the other 2 carbs, and if need be, adjust the throttle flap position with this screw. That tiny little progression hole is maybe a millimetre big, so I figure that this is as precise a way of zeroing the carbs to each other as can be. I think I last adjusted these a 3 years ago on the bench before installing the carbs, and they're still in perfect adjustment, so it's not something that will constantly need to be corrected. And this method seems more precise than messing around with devices that measure airflow at the intake.
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Now that the carbs are all zeroed to the same position, you need to make sure that the 3 linkage arms are also zeroed. It's no point getting the carbs just-so, and then when you reconnect the linkages, it pulls one carb open slightly when the other 2 are closed. So I loosen the linkage arm on the jackshaft, reconnect the droplink (after putting a little dab of lithium grease on the sockets)...and then gently taking up the slack, re-tighten the linkage arm on the jackshaft.
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And then you're done, a 15min check that can be done annually :) IMHO, the most important part of tuning the carbs, is getting the throttle flaps sync'd perfectly, so that they all open in perfect unison (and you get a perfectly synchronised dump of fuel from the progression port holes!), and that's what gives that nice, crisp response.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:45 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:59 am
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Awesome to see this getting updated again :D


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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:01 am 
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Mlracing wrote:
Awesome to see this getting updated again :D


Ditto. Details appreciated! Neko.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:42 am 
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Thanks for the warm welcome back :)

The new car is still in Japan, so we have a few months before I get distracted again :D

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:59 am 
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kev wrote:
The new car is still in Japan, so we have a few months before I get distracted again :D

If you need someone to make sure its oil pick-up does not starve on tight left handers around the Usui Touge before it leaves, just ask. Neko.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:21 am 
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Kuroneko wrote:
kev wrote:
The new car is still in Japan, so we have a few months before I get distracted again :D

If you need someone to make sure its oil pick-up does not starve on tight left handers around the Usui Touge before it leaves, just ask. Neko.

Do you speak rotary?

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:11 am 
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kev wrote:
Do you speak rotary?
Not very well!

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:46 am 
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Kuroneko wrote:
kev wrote:
Do you speak rotary?
Not very well!

I have to be brutally honest, but this job interview is not going very well for you.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:10 pm 
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kev wrote:
Kuroneko wrote:
kev wrote:
Do you speak rotary?
Not very well!

I have to be brutally honest, but this job interview is not going very well for you.

bwhahahahhahhahhaa


This is why I always come back.

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 Post subject: Re: JNC Project Hakosuka Build Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:36 am 
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kev wrote:
Kuroneko wrote:
kev wrote:
Do you speak rotary?
Not very well!

I have to be brutally honest, but this job interview is not going very well for you.


Aw, go on. Give the kid a chance. He's driven all over Japan and hasn't had a single crash. None that he's mentioned, anyway.

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